Pale crystal malt %

[pas8280]

I may be able to get a brew on at the weekend and having had a look at my grain supplies I have an abundance of pale crystal malt, I just don't seem to be using it at all preferring normal crystal.
As such I was thinking along the lines of a 50% pale crystal malt grist in the brew, possibly traditionally hopped with admiral.
My question is has anyone used this amount of pale crystal and what are the possible pitfalls and outcome ?
Paul

[Morten]

I don't think it has any diastatic power, so you'd end up with a wort with a lot of unfermentable sugar=sweet beer

[mabrungard]

The upper limit often mentioned in brewing with crystal malts is around 10%. But in contrast with that limit, I've brewed with up to 20% crystal and I know of at least one American brewery (Rogue) that routinely uses that much crystal.

I find that exceeding 10% can create a less fermentable wort with more residual sweetness. Although that beer I brewed with 20% crystal (a Mild) was pleasant and tasty, I did not prefer it. At that level of crystal, it was a bit cloying and did not finish dry enough on the palate. That is the same fault I find with Rogue beers...they don't finish dry enough to make me want another beer. This finding is independent of the bittering level.

I've heard from some prominent brewers (Steele at Stone Brewing and others) that are more openly advocating little to no crystal malts in brews that they craft. I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment, but I now recognize that excessive crystal use in beers is something to be avoided in order to produce a clean and drying finish in my beers.

I guarantee that you won't enjoy a beer made with 50% crystal. I do suggest that you consider 20% as an opening percentage if you are looking to evaluate for yourself, how the beer will finish.

[seymour]

The aforementioned comments are generally true, but of course there are exceptions to every rule. For instance: Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby Mild, an extremely highly renowned beer is supposedly 75% Maris Otter and 25% Crystal Malt! Homebrewers have done it, and vouched it's a close clone. Since you're asking about paler crystal malt, I expect you could even use a little more than 25% and achieve similar results. That is, only if you desire a heavy-bodied, rich, malty-sweet beer to begin with. Even so, be sure to mash longer than usual, at a lower single mash temperature than usual, or perform a multi-step mash. Consider adding simple sugar to the boil in order to lighten the body. Ferment warm with a big, healthy population of a highly attenuative yeast strain (Montrachet wine yeast would kick ass), and give it plenty of time to finish.

I know Munich Malt isn't the same as Pale Crystal Malt, exactly, but it's not far off. The delicious Stone Arrogant Bastard is supposedly nothing but Munich malt and Chinook hops.

I'd probably keep the Crystal to 15% or less, though, if I were you.

[Dr. Dextrin]

I have to disagree with Seymour as regards blitzing a load of pale crystal with a highly attenuating yeast, especially a wine yeast. In my experience, pale crystal tastes nasty if you suck all the sweetness out of it - sort of sharp tasting and grainy. Take steps to avoid it being over-sweet by all means, but don't over-do it.

[seymour]

I have to disagree with Seymour as regards blitzing a load of pale crystal with a highly attenuating yeast, especially a wine yeast. In my experience, pale crystal tastes nasty if you suck all the sweetness out of it - sort of sharp tasting and grainy. Take steps to avoid it being over-sweet by all means, but don't over-do it.

Point taken, but the OP asked about a 50% pale crystal grainbill, and I'm talking about reducing that to around 25%. Either way, I don't think even a wine yeast could cancel-out all that sweetness (for instance, wine yeast isn't nearly as well-adapted to ferment maltotriose as people think). But you could be right. Again, if he's targeting a really heavy-bodied beer with a full, chewy mouthfeel and lots of residual sweetness, then he could simply stick with a standard English ale yeast. I'd love to taste beers made both ways. Perhaps a split batch with separate yeast strains would be a fun experiment?

[pas8280]

Thanks guys for your advice I take the point and after all that I didn't end up brewing the beer intended as the yeast strain I had ready was "Marble" which is better suited in my opinion to pales (ended up with a Riwaka SMASH) but I've started two starters for next brew a Timmy Taylor and WLP 13 for splitting the brew and intend to reign back the crystal to 20 % ( I will use it eventually )
Many thanks again Paul