Bittering Hops. Does Choice Matter?

[trucker5774]

It's been quite a while since I brewed an "ordinary" bitter. Most of my beers are loaded with late hops. On that basis I have the theory that any bitterness I want may as well come from a high AA hop using as little as 5g, which costs next to nothing.

There are certainly recipes which specify fuggles, challenger, EKG etc as the 90 min hop and little or no late hops. So, what do you reckon? At what point does the choice matter from a flavour point of view, or do you think bitterness is just bitterness and the grains make the brew?

[TheMumbler]

I think it has an effect on flavour, not as much as later addtitions, but some. Not sure whether the science backs me up, but that is my feeling.

The quality of the bitterness may vary with hop too, think smooth vs harsh. Target for example is often described as having a harsh bitterness although I've never used it so I can't comment on that. Personally I prefer to go with more of a lower alpha hop if I'm doing that kind of a beer and avoid the very high alpha ones, Target, Admiral etc. I've never tried doing something like that with a high alpha hop, maybe some of the american high alpha but low cohumulone hops would be OK... If there is lots of late hopping then I'm more likely to use Magnum or something like that in small quantities for bitterness.

I'm just speculating tbh, it would be interesting to see what the more experienced brewers think.

[Wolfy]

Bitter a nice delicate beer with something like Chinook or Pride of Ringwood and you'll see that it matters.

However, you can use 'neutral' bittering hops or 'mask' the bittering hops with later additions, it all depends on the hops and recipe in question IMHO.

[TheMumbler]

For some reason I got it into my head you were talking about making an ordinary bitter, when you were actually talking about beers with lots of late hops.

I would get some Magnum if you want a high alpha hop to use in small quantities for bittering alongside lots of late additions. Alternatively if you are using american or NZ high alphas as late additions then just move a small quantitiy of those late hops to 90 mins to get the bitterness.

If you were making an ordinary bitter with a small amount of late hops I would go for lower alpha hops (fuggles, EKG etc) for bittering. Challenger is a good compromise for bittering in English beers.

[trucker5774]

I was talking from both camps really. Going on the theory that late hops are used for their flavour and aroma they will by nature of what you are doing, form the beer's main hop flavour. It's in this style of beer I am suggesting that the bittering hops perhaps make no difference, whether they are a small amount of powerful hops or a greater amount of weaker hops.

When we get to a bitter with few or no late hops I imagine that a larger amount of lower AA hops would be more beneficial. The thing which keeps going round my mind is the number of posts I read where people are boiling for longer to get greater utilisation and saying that the hop flavour is boiled off, so they add flavour hops later. I then think of the number of bitters which just use fuggles and/or EKG at 60/90 mins and still make a flavoursome pint.

[TheMumbler]

As I said I think they do have an effect, but it is a diminishing returns thing. Basically the longer you boil the more bitterness you get (up to a maximum presumably) and the less flavour. I'm not sure at all about aroma but I would guess that this is the easiest to lose so you might not get much at all from a 90 min boil. Good bitters tend to have some yeast profile to them, I would guess that you get more of the yeast flavour coming through with a lower amount of hopping. It will all be interacting though so it is likely to be pretty complicated to know precisely.

I favour either the same hops if I'm using high alphas, or a clean bittering hop for beers with lots of late hops. As much as anything else to make the loss of wort to the hops lower.

[raiderman]

Theres a chart somewhere he said helpfully which tracks extraction rates during the boil, 60m plus gives max bittering but most of the flavour and aroma are boiled off, 30m gives max flavour and 15-0 max aroma. Theres obviously still some flavour after a long boil and my feeling has always been that it must be better to start with a nice residual flavour rather than a nasty one, so I don't use bittering hops, preferring high alpha dual purpose if I'm making a very aromatatic beer - I'm currently using Summit which I don't trust for aroma but seems safe for bittering

[trucker5774]

I now get most of my bittering from the large amount of hops I use after 15mins.........usually around 30 IBU

[raiderman]

I now get most of my bittering from the large amount of hops I use after 15mins.........usually around 30 IBU

I've started to do the same, but I like to anchor the bitteness with some bittering hops, which is why fwh attracts me.