Good afternoon everyone
Since liquid yeasts are 'better' but more expensive than the dried ones, can I ask you how you reuse them? Is it worth doing it?
I was thinking to follow this example: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/liquid_yeast.htm when I brew my next batch.
Is it that simple? If yes it will be very economic.
Thanks
Re-using Wyeast labs #1098
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seymour
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Re: Re-using Wyeast labs #1098
Yep, it's that simple. Sanitize a few jelly jars before you bottle/keg your finished beer, then pour some of the yeast dregs into each jar. Leave the lid loose for a couple days to make sure there's no dangerous pressure-build, then move 'em to the fridge. That'll provide you with at least 3-4 more brews with the exact same yeast.
I'm due for a re-read of the Yeast book, but I remember the co-author Chris White (of White Labs) said he thinks each yeast strain really only hits its stride after the third re-pitch! From a business standpoint, it's a good thing most of his customers don't follow that advice, but buy new yeast every time they brew.
Now, of course many people are much more fastidious than that, and will recommend elaborate yeast washing methods, acid treatment, etc. I say if you use your common sense...dump it when you know you've done something to compromise it, or if it smells really bad...it's not rocket science.
Best of luck!
I'm due for a re-read of the Yeast book, but I remember the co-author Chris White (of White Labs) said he thinks each yeast strain really only hits its stride after the third re-pitch! From a business standpoint, it's a good thing most of his customers don't follow that advice, but buy new yeast every time they brew.
Now, of course many people are much more fastidious than that, and will recommend elaborate yeast washing methods, acid treatment, etc. I say if you use your common sense...dump it when you know you've done something to compromise it, or if it smells really bad...it's not rocket science.
Best of luck!
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Jocky
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Re: Re-using Wyeast labs #1098
Look in here for several very handy topics: viewforum.php?f=72
In particular, look at the splitting yeast packs one, and also the washing yeast one.
As I only do small batches I even split the little white labs vials into 2 or 3 doses. I split it into sterilised (boil and cool twice) tubes, and then make a starter for each batch.
I've read plenty of tales of people washing yeast and storing it for a year or more - just perform a small step up fermentation first to make check your yeast is still good:
1. Stir 100g of Light Dry Malt Extract into a litre of water (actually a little more than a litre, to account for boil off)
2. Boil for 15 minutes
3. Let it cool to pitching temperature (20-23 degrees)
4. Aerate and pitch yeast (or as I do, pitch yeast and then shake the whole lot until foamy).
5. It'll ferment - should be active in 12 hours.
6. 48-72 hours later you should have a fermented baby beer. Smell it, taste it. If anything seems wrong, throw it if you don't want to risk your beer.
7. (Optional - if you have time) Cool the baby beer for 24 hours to drop out more healthy yeast.
8. Pour off the liquid and pitch the slurry at the bottom to your wort.
In particular, look at the splitting yeast packs one, and also the washing yeast one.
As I only do small batches I even split the little white labs vials into 2 or 3 doses. I split it into sterilised (boil and cool twice) tubes, and then make a starter for each batch.
I've read plenty of tales of people washing yeast and storing it for a year or more - just perform a small step up fermentation first to make check your yeast is still good:
1. Stir 100g of Light Dry Malt Extract into a litre of water (actually a little more than a litre, to account for boil off)
2. Boil for 15 minutes
3. Let it cool to pitching temperature (20-23 degrees)
4. Aerate and pitch yeast (or as I do, pitch yeast and then shake the whole lot until foamy).
5. It'll ferment - should be active in 12 hours.
6. 48-72 hours later you should have a fermented baby beer. Smell it, taste it. If anything seems wrong, throw it if you don't want to risk your beer.
7. (Optional - if you have time) Cool the baby beer for 24 hours to drop out more healthy yeast.
8. Pour off the liquid and pitch the slurry at the bottom to your wort.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.
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YeastWhisperer
Re: Re-using Wyeast labs #1098
There was a point in time, not long ago when there was a clear-cut difference in quality between liquid and dry brewer's yeast. However, the gap in quality has been narrowed to the point were the difference is in the noise. What liquid yeast cultures bring to the table is variety. Slanted (sloped) yeast cultures greatly expand the number of yeast cultures with which one can work because one can order yeast on slant from all of the major culture collections such as the NCYC and CBS-KNAW. I am a dyed-in-the-wool slanted yeast user (I plate and slant most of the yeast that I use), but I have found that there is zero need to maintain or propagate BRY 96 (a.k.a. Wyeast 1056 and White Labs WLP001), BRY 97 (a.k.a. Wyeast 1272 and White Labs WLP051), or Whitbread B (a.k.a. Wyeast 1098, White Labs WLP007) when these strains are available in high-quality dry form as Safale US-05, Danstar BRY 97, and Safale S04 respectively.
With that said, like Seymour, I just crop and repitch when harvesting yeast from a primary fermentation vessel. If one chills and racks out of one's kettle such that one leaves most of the break and hops in the kettle, there is zero need to rinse yeast with water.
With that said, like Seymour, I just crop and repitch when harvesting yeast from a primary fermentation vessel. If one chills and racks out of one's kettle such that one leaves most of the break and hops in the kettle, there is zero need to rinse yeast with water.
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Mther
Re: Re-using Wyeast labs #1098
Thank you all for your replies.
I pitched the packed in the fermenter... so after a week I will try to wash the yeast and save it for future brews. Are the following steps correct?
1) Add 0.5L of boiled cool water (around 20-23C) in the primary fermenter.
2) Shake well, and transfer in a demijohn leaving behind any hops or debris
3) Shake the demijohn, put a sterilised aluminum foil on top and wait for an hour or more to settle
4) The mixture will be seperated into 3 layers, the top clear one is 'beer, middle creamy layer is the yeast and bottom is turb
5) Carefully throw away the beer, and transfer the middle creamy layer in sanitised jam jars or clear beer bottles
6) Refrigerate the jars and bottles to use for next brew
Am I in the right direction?
Also, What do you do if you dry hop in the fermenter? How do you remove the hops to make the procedure easier?
Cheers
I pitched the packed in the fermenter... so after a week I will try to wash the yeast and save it for future brews. Are the following steps correct?
1) Add 0.5L of boiled cool water (around 20-23C) in the primary fermenter.
2) Shake well, and transfer in a demijohn leaving behind any hops or debris
3) Shake the demijohn, put a sterilised aluminum foil on top and wait for an hour or more to settle
4) The mixture will be seperated into 3 layers, the top clear one is 'beer, middle creamy layer is the yeast and bottom is turb
5) Carefully throw away the beer, and transfer the middle creamy layer in sanitised jam jars or clear beer bottles
6) Refrigerate the jars and bottles to use for next brew
Am I in the right direction?
Also, What do you do if you dry hop in the fermenter? How do you remove the hops to make the procedure easier?
Cheers
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Mther
Re: Re-using Wyeast labs #1098
Quick question please, is it ok to use beer bottles rather than jam jar?
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YeastWhisperer
Re: Re-using Wyeast labs #1098
There's nothing to be gained by rinsing yeast with boiled water. The average amateur brewer who rinses his/her yeast with boiled water does more harm than good. Rinsing yeast with boiled water is a home brewer-only procedure that is not grounded in science. No professional brewer worth his/her salt rinses his/her yeast culture with boiled water. Yeast is not just another ingredient. It is a living organism with its own ecosystem.
Boiled water is not sterile. One has to raise water to 121C and hold it there for 15 minutes to render it sterile. Water boils at 100C at sea level; therefore, water has to be boiled under pressure to raise its temperature to 121C (15 pounds per square inch above normal atmospheric pressure). The pH of boiled tap water is near or greater than 7. The pH of beer is around 4.2, which helps to keep wild microflora at bay (it's the reason why bacteria that can make you sick does not grow in beer). Beer contains ethanol, which is toxic to microorganisms. Replacing beer with boiled water raises the pH of the culture high enough that wild microflora will grow and feast on dead yeast cells.
Boiled water is not sterile. One has to raise water to 121C and hold it there for 15 minutes to render it sterile. Water boils at 100C at sea level; therefore, water has to be boiled under pressure to raise its temperature to 121C (15 pounds per square inch above normal atmospheric pressure). The pH of boiled tap water is near or greater than 7. The pH of beer is around 4.2, which helps to keep wild microflora at bay (it's the reason why bacteria that can make you sick does not grow in beer). Beer contains ethanol, which is toxic to microorganisms. Replacing beer with boiled water raises the pH of the culture high enough that wild microflora will grow and feast on dead yeast cells.
Last edited by YeastWhisperer on Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mther
Re: Re-using Wyeast labs #1098
Thats interesting thank you!YeastWhisperer wrote:There's nothing to be gained by rinsing yeast with boiled water. The average amateur brewer who rinses his/her yeast with boiled water does more harm than good. Rinsing yeast with boiled water is a home brewer-only procedure that is not grounded in science. No professional brewer worth his/her salt rinses his/her yeast culture with boiled water. Yeast is not just another ingredient. It is a living organism with its own ecosystem.
Boiled water is not sterile. One has to raise water to 121C and hold it there for 15 minutes to render it sterile. Water boils at 100C at sea level; therefore, water has to be boiled under pressure to raise its temperature 121C (15 pounds per square inch above normal atmospheric pressure). The pH of boiled tap water is near or greater than 7. The pH of beer is around 4.2, which helps to keep wild microflora at bay (it's the reason why bacteria that can make you sick does not grow in beer). Beer contains ethanol, which is toxic to microorganisms. Replacing beer with boiled water raises the pH of the culture high enough that wild microflora will grow and feast on dead yeast cells.
So should I do it using water from supermarket?
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YeastWhisperer
Re: Re-using Wyeast labs #1098
No, you should not do it at all. There is absolutely no reason to rinse yeast with water. Brewers have been cropping and repitching without rinsing for thousands of years. All you need to do is to transfer thin slurry (a.k.a. the dregs plus a little green beer) from the bottom of the fermentation vessel to sanitized jars for storage as Seymour explained above. Yeast doesn't need to be rinsed to be reused. If you have been reading yeast-related threads Home Brew Talk, please stop. Most of the brewers on that forum have a cursory understanding of microbiology at best.Mther wrote:Thats interesting thank you!
So should I do it using water from supermarket?
I crop to 500ml Erlenmeyer flasks. I leave a little green beer behind while racking that I use to swirl the yeast and break back into suspension. I wait a couple of minutes for the heaviest particulate matter to settle out before carefully decanting the cloudy liquid. If performed correctly, most of the break, dead yeast cells, and hop particulate matter will be left behind in the fermentation vessel.
Crops in My Brewing Refrigerator
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Mther
Re: Re-using Wyeast labs #1098
I am using a Belgian yeast and it is the 4th day of fermentation today. Can I top crop it and save it in a jar rather than taking the yeast from the bottom of the fermenter?