Yeast Cropping Advice

Share your experiences of using brewing yeast.
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timtoos
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Yeast Cropping Advice

Post by timtoos » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:38 pm

Some advice on a yeast crop I have just collected please.

I have just tool some yeast from the top of a beer which was practically finished. Its White Labs WLP013 London yeast and I harvested so late as I was waiting for a suitable container to turn up as all my others were all full of other strains.

Anyway, the yeast on top was very thin indeed with lots of floating bits on top. It was a Brown Porter brew btw.

I took what I could and left the outside edges as what people suggest to do but theres not loads that I could get

Is this crop ok if I make a starter? Is the yeast suitable or is this the stuff that isnt very flocculant? Should I use it or dump?

Thanks

Attached is a pic of what I could collect
wlp013 starter.jpg
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timtoos
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Re: Yeast Cropping Advice

Post by timtoos » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:53 am

Think I left it too late. Just ordered another pack

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orlando
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Re: Yeast Cropping Advice

Post by orlando » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:11 pm

Top cropped yeast is certainly the freshest and most vigorous you can harvest but you have answered your own question really. Received wisdom is to skim the first yeast bloom that appears, as it often has hop resin attached to it and some trub too. It's the next layer thrown up by the yeast you really want, the stuff that appears at the peak of fermentation. It is not necessarily bad to have some yeast from the end of fermentation as this may not be the most flocculent but it does help with attenuation.
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Eric
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Re: Yeast Cropping Advice

Post by Eric » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:35 pm

It's difficult to make a judgement from that picture. I'd be inclined to make half a litre of 1035 to 1040 wort in a 1 litre container, adding about 80ml to that in your picture and retaining the remainder in readiness to accept the transfer of the source when activity begins to peak..

A small amount of wort added to a large amount of active yeast should very quickly show activity, while a large volume of wort and a small amount of yeast takes significantly longer.

I can't remember if or when I might have used WLP013, but some such yeast are not true top cropping and to crop enough for repitching requires taking slurry. A problem with slurry is that it will necessarily contain many more dead cells with trub, potentially with bacterial contamination, although that shouldn't rule out that method.

When collecting topcrop and putting it in the fridge, it is usually necessary within hours to bang the container hard on the bench to knock back the yeast due to CO2 production in the process.
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Re: Yeast Cropping Advice

Post by Eric » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:35 pm

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This is a slightly better than average copping from a 50 litre brew using a true British ale yeast. It would be wrong to say it was an average crop, but to collect half this volume would be failure.

Taking an early crop would indeed provide a good source of yeast for pitching, but take care if you adopt such a practice not to remove the yeast necessary to fully ferment your wort in the way necessary to produce the best beer possible. For that reason I crop as fermentation nears completion when further rousing isn't desirable.

This clearly shows the different levels in a fermentor after racking a beer fermented with a real British top fermenting yeast. I'm not saying that American supposed British yeasts are fake, just that they might not be as we tend to assume.
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orlando
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Re: Yeast Cropping Advice

Post by orlando » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:38 pm

Eric wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:35 pm
This clearly shows the different levels in a fermentor after racking a beer fermented with a real British top fermenting yeast. I'm not saying that American supposed British yeasts are fake, just that they might not be as we tend to assume.
Very diplomatic Eric. =D>
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Re: Yeast Cropping Advice

Post by Trefoyl » Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:14 pm

I would say Wyeast West Yorkshire is a true top cropper :lol:
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Re: Yeast Cropping Advice

Post by Eric » Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:40 am

Very diplomatic Eric.
Not my intention, Orlando. I found some White Labs and Wyeast were not necessarily what was thought. There likely is some provenance in all these packages, but the processes used growing these products can well result in refinement, mutation and unrealised biological change. Breweries are very protective of their processes, and probably more so about yeast than any other component. In the past, multi-strain were not uncommon, potentially the results of cooperation with other breweries when a pitching failed and a bucket of the nearest breweries standard yeast was borrowed for the job. Yeasts mutate to suit their environments, which may be very different in the source brewery and the company producing it in bulk for the homebrew market. Further again in the vast array of different equipment used by homebrewers.



Trefoyl demonstrates that latter point, and knows about true top cropping yeasts in their home environment. So just as a true top fermenting yeast should be open-top fermented for the obvious reason seen in his picture, the process used to supply yeasts could severely limit their capabilities.
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Re: Yeast Cropping Advice

Post by orlando » Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:25 pm

Eric wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:40 am
Very diplomatic Eric.
Not my intention, Orlando. I found some White Labs and Wyeast were not necessarily what was thought. There likely is some provenance in all these packages, but the processes used growing these products can well result in refinement, mutation and unrealised biological change. Breweries are very protective of their processes, and probably more so about yeast than any other component. In the past, multi-strain were not uncommon, potentially the results of cooperation with other breweries when a pitching failed and a bucket of the nearest breweries standard yeast was borrowed for the job. Yeasts mutate to suit their environments, which may be very different in the source brewery and the company producing it in bulk for the homebrew market. Further again in the vast array of different equipment used by homebrewers.



Trefoyl demonstrates that latter point, and knows about true top cropping yeasts in their home environment. So just as a true top fermenting yeast should be open-top fermented for the obvious reason seen in his picture, the process used to supply yeasts could severely limit their capabilities.
Points not appreciated as much as they should be Eric. Mainly I suspect because younger drinkers are brought up on so called "Craft" beers and have less knowledge of how the more traditional regional breweries evolved. The trend to single strain yeasts, started by our Continental cousins, is something the USA has built their yeast industry on. Commercial pressures make it inevitable. You and I know that making Beer from yeast donated from our regional breweries is usually much more interesting than using commercially available strains. Keeping multiple strains going in the balance required to produce their unique flavours is of little interest when your driven by commercial pressures.
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Conditioning:
Drinking: Southwold Again,

Up Next: John Barleycorn (Barley Wine)
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

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Re: Yeast Cropping Advice

Post by IPA » Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:59 pm

Trefoyl wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:14 pm
I would say Wyeast West Yorkshire is a true top cropper :lol:
Image
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Re: Yeast Cropping Advice

Post by Trefoyl » Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:34 am

Yeah, I get that a lot. It would have blown out anyway - I’ve tried open and closed and it makes no difference. I just change the airlock if this happen and usually use a bigger fermenter with a vigorous yeast.
Sommeliers recommend that you swirl a glass of wine and inhale its bouquet before throwing it in the face of your enemy.

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