Another question about yeast starters/slurry

[nallum]

Activity winding down this morning.

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Just thawing some starter wort collected from a previous brew day.

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With a little planning, yeast starters can be about as time consuming as making a cup of tea.

[nallum]

Just stepped up, after about 48 hours. Shook the 1L wort for about 10 seconds to aerate. More than enough at this scale.

[nallum]

And this morning:

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Gave it a swirl to knock out some of the excess CO2 and get yeast back in solution for better access to nutrients.

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I’ll let this culture for 48-72 hours, swirling whenever I pass.

[nallum]

Nice yeast cap at about 30 hours after pitching into a 20L batch of Bitter @ 1.043.

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The starter, being stepped up from a tsp of yeast slurry in 200ml (for 48-76h) to 1L (for 48-76h), had a much higher vitality than a commercial pack of wet yeast (or jar of harvested yeast stored at the back of a fridge) tossed into a bigger volume of starter wort, as per 'normal' BS advice. In fact, for lower gravity English ales, a smaller starter is usually sufficient when stepping up and producing fresh high vitality yeast slurry. For a good English ale yeast strain, 100ml to 600ml is going to ferment a standard batch of wort better than a 'standard' starter according to mysterious calculators. Because yeast vitality is more important than cells/ml per se. But it's always best to 'overpitch' fresh high vitality yeast, like commercial brewers do.

[cc986]

Thanks for posting those photos Nallum. I just bought myself one of those reagent bottles and have got some yeast slurry from a Belgian blond in there at the moment which I will use to practice with later. In the meantime, I enjoyed a bottle of Fullers 1845 last night and kept the bottom inch or so to see if I can create a starter with that. I intend to brew a beer based on 1845 in a couple of weeks so it would be good to get my own yeast for that.

[nallum]

A 2L reagent bottle is a good investment for yeast starters. The quality of food jars at this volume seems to be rubbish, ime. Especially if you want to sterilise them in the oven and freeze (half full) ready-to-use starter wort in them.

[cc986]

Hello all,
As discussed earlier, I kept the dregs of a bottle of Fullers 1845 with the intention of trying to make a starter from it. Well, it seems to have worked out very well and I now have a nice layer of yeast at the bottom of a kilner jar. The only problem is, despite being in a fridge for about three weeks it is still very cloudy. I don't have a picture but it looks like one of those cloudy NEIPA's. I poured some into a glass and it smelt good and tasted ok -just a bit sweet but I couldn't detect anything that I would consider to be a bad flavour. So am I right to think that it would still be ok to use?
I've also taken a starter from a Saison I brewed about ten days ago and that has cleared properly, so what would be stopping the Fullers one from clearing - is it just dead yeast cells that won't drop out for some reason?
Many thanks in advance,
Chris.

[JonB]

Some yeast strains won't flocculate without a fight, it could well be what's happening here.

That being said you may also have some cells with mutations that now won't drop out.

It'll be fine to use, and you can just chuck out most of the liquid before pitching and this will take out what's in suspension as well.

Even if this doesn't work and the beer is still cloudy it won't do you any harm...

[cc986]

Some yeast strains won't flocculate without a fight, it could well be what's happening here.

That being said you may also have some cells with mutations that now won't drop out.

It'll be fine to use, and you can just chuck out most of the liquid before pitching and this will take out what's in suspension as well.

Even if this doesn't work and the beer is still cloudy it won't do you any harm...

Thanks very much JonB! I was actually thinking of pouring away most of the liquid then making another 1 litre starter with the yeast about 36 hours before I do the brew.

[nallum]

It’s not what I’d expect to see after a few weeks, it should have cleared by now. Even a low flocculating strain. Dead cells drop like weights. As JonB suggests, if it's some weird mutant cells staying in suspension, decanting off the spent wort is going to to get rid of them. Personally, I'd say work with the yeast you've cultured at 'starter' scale until it behaves. A good opportunity to practice making starters. You really want the spent starter wort (and beer) to clear/go bright. It makes a big difference, according to my taste. Especially for a nice traditional English ale. Suspended yeast cells can pack a lot of weird undesirable flavours and mouthfeels. If necessary, use isinglass or gelatine to get the beer clear.

Fuller's yeast is pretty powdery and has medium flocculation, I'd say, and definitely clears well enough without much intervention. It's nothing like WLP002. The spent starter wort shouldn’t taste sweet either, so I’m guessing it might have been put in the fridge too soon, before it had finished. Take it out of the fridge and leave it at room temperature for a bit longer, to see if it shows any activity. Bubbles evolving, yeast flocs erupting up from the slurry, foam on the surface, etc. Step up the starter volume once or twice aiming to pitch it fresh into fermenter wort. Say, 2 x 3 days then pitch on day 7. So start a week before you plan to brew. I usually increase the volume by about 5x, e.g., 100 to 500ml or 200 to 1000ml.

[cc986]

It’s not what I’d expect to see after a few weeks, it should have cleared by now. Even a low flocculating strain. Dead cells drop like weights. As JonB suggests, if it's some weird mutant cells staying in suspension, decanting off the spent wort is going to to get rid of them. Personally, I'd say work with the yeast you've cultured at 'starter' scale until it behaves. A good opportunity to practice making starters. You really want the spent starter wort (and beer) to clear/go bright. It makes a big difference, according to my taste. Especially for a nice traditional English ale. Suspended yeast cells can pack a lot of weird undesirable flavours and mouthfeels. If necessary, use isinglass or gelatine to get the beer clear.

Fuller's yeast is pretty powdery and has medium flocculation, I'd say, and definitely clears well enough without much intervention. It's nothing like WLP002. The spent starter wort shouldn’t taste sweet either, so I’m guessing it might have been put in the fridge too soon, before it had finished. Take it out of the fridge and leave it at room temperature for a bit longer, to see if it shows any activity. Bubbles evolving, yeast flocs erupting up from the slurry, foam on the surface, etc. Step up the starter volume once or twice aiming to pitch it fresh into fermenter wort. Say, 2 x 3 days then pitch on day 7. So start a week before you plan to brew. I usually increase the volume by about 5x, e.g., 100 to 500ml or 200 to 1000ml.

Thanks nallum, I'll try all that.