Improving the turbo cider

[craigmarshall]

Hi,

I've done a few "turbo" ciders in the last few weeks, and want to step things up a notch, if that's possible.

My first batch was incredibly yeasty, cloudy, yellow and very very tart. I've changed things around (not shaking the fermenter during fermentation was the major thing), and I now have a cider I'm fairly happy with. They are now coming out not too dry (I'm using cider yeast instead of wine yeast?), crystal clear (I now add pectolase, and don't touch the vessel during fermentation), and tasty (no dilution, no added sugar, adding triple-tea each time). The only thing I haven't tried (well I have, but that batch is not ready to taste yet) is the bramley apple.

My wife and I did a side-by-side tasting tonight of a good cider - Aspalls Premier Cru - why not aim high, against my cider, and the good bought cider kicked my cider's butt. It was crisper, cleaner, fresher, tastes of vanilla, cream, pear, all sorts of things you wouldn't normally associate. And it was a much paler colour, looked like champagne in the glass. Mine tastes of apples alright, just nothing else, and I'd like to change that if I can.

I have read on the aspall's site that a mix of apples including eaters, cookers and cider apples are used, so starting with Juice can't be that bad. Obviously I should try the grated bramley trick. I have also read that fermentation happens over the course of about 4 weeks for them (colder?), using an introduced strain of yeast, not wild yeast. I did read that they carbonate the cider, but it didn't seem over fizzy, perfect if you ask me, and it perfectly matched my own, so I am happy with that.

What can I do to emulate these good features as closely as possible with the basic kit I have? I know I could start with the right mix of apples including cider apples, but I don't own an orchard. There is a crab apple tree in my garden though, worth trying? Are there any other eating/cooking apples I can buy from the supermarket that will introduce these lovely extra flavours? Can I ferment more slowly and colder for more flavour/aroma subtlety? Can I use a better cider yeast than Youngs generic "Cider Yeast"? Are there any other reasonably easily available ingredients that I can use? I have access to american white oak (I make furniture), I could make small oak chips, sanitise them and then add them, I could grate a pear or two to go in there, any other ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Craig

[craigmarshall]

Additional thoughts:

I am aware that this goes against the original plan for turbo cider, and that turbo cider is meant to be quick, cheap and easy. I guess a better way to word the question is "What's a half way house between turbo cider and traditional cider making". i.e. how close can I get to these other ciders I love while still using supermarket juice from a carton

Do traditional cider makers (Or quality cider makers, and I'm talking about Aspalls), use such techniques as diluting cider to lessen the yellow colour, or does aging do that, or what? Also - do they add sugar, or boil down the original juice in order to concentrate the sugar, and hit a goal ABV% value?

I've measured the temperature in the salad cooler section of my fridge, and It's 10-12C (We don't keep milk/meats/etc too long, so the warmest setting is good enough). Is this too cold for cider yeast to do their thing? I know I could just try it, I was just interested if anyone had tried this. What's the absolute ideal fermentation temperature for cider yeast, by the way?

Cheers,
Craig

[craigmarshall]

Well I have a new batch on last night, and it's fermenting in the fridge at 10C. It is fermenting, I checked it this morning (at a guess 1 bubble per 30 seconds), normally at this stage it'd be 1 bubble per 5 seconds, approx.

I'm aware it'll probably take a while! I'll let you know how it goes.

Craig

[pauljmuk]

Whilst I would never profess that TC is anywhere near traditional cider making, i think that you can experiment to a good degree with flavourings and recipe changes to improve the taste.

At one end of scale we have "20 litres of apple juice, add yeast, ferment" type TC's

I personally experiment with different sugar additions, honeys etc, and yeasts. My first adapted TC used 50g elderflowers steeped in some of the hot juice for half an hour - added lovely colour, aroma and taste.

Current brew is complimented with rose petals and orange blossom (steeped the same way), unrefined organic cane sugar and lime blossom honey. Smells superb, but yet to taste.

[DREADSKIN]

there has been tonnes and tonnes of past debate onthis fine issue.
my 2 pence:
20 ltrs juice, 6-8 bramleys blended, one pot of tea made with 6-8 teabags.
depending on strength desired, 100 grams-1.5 kilos of soft brown sugar or 1 - 3 jars of honey.
this gives a scrumpy flavour due to the additon of tannin from the tea (eg kingstone black cider apples are very heavy in tannin) and the bramleys which add acid. normal apple juice is deficent in these properties.

[Bryggmester]

I would follow Dreadskin's advice. I tried his recipe, minus the sugar/honey as it is strong enough for me without any additional fermentables. It really does produce a much better cider, difficult to describe without sounding like Jilly Goulden (or whatever she is called). Rounder, fuller flavour and definitely miles better than the mass produced industrial "cider" which is what most people think of as cider nowadays. I know TC is supposed to be brewed and quaffed in a short space of time but if you can be patient and let this mature for a bit it pays dividends.

[pauljmuk]

yep, like Dreadskin said - whilst I don't think we've had forum exchange - his posts pushed me into TC and having fun. It's great -

My recipes are virtually like his, minus the apples, adding the blossoms!

[craigmarshall]

Okay - well it's crystal clear to me now, I NEED to get a brew on with tea and bramleys at the least (I have 2 bramleys (and tea) in a 10l strawberry cider batch at the moment, but it's still fermenting, and has been for about 8 days now, strawberries seem to double the time needed!). I shall try this out and reply back to this thread to let you know what I think to it. Thanks for your replies.

Cheers,
Craig

[pauljmuk]

go with elderflower - you wont regret it!

[DREADSKIN]

yeah, made one few months back with a bottle of that belvoir cordial stuff in it instead of the honey/sugar. its weird but really tasty and strong. pure class. just dug out a 20ltr bottle ive hidden in the attic for 6 months from the orginial recipie (without extra sugar) and its liquid gold. definitly gets better with age this stuff. just means you gotta brew loads so you can build up stock and never run out!

[craigmarshall]

Well - My cold fermented cider is still fermenting after a month! I have it in the bottom of the fridge in a single demijohn, with a few of the fridge shelves removed. We haven't really missed the space in there. I will keep you posted about what it's like when it's finished. It's still bubbling and not starting to clear yet, so I guess it's still going strong.

I wonder if I should rack if off, will I get any bad flavours over this amount of time from the yeast in the bottom? They recommend to rack off wine every month or so, would this be the same? Normally a cider is done in just a few days for me..

Edit: It had cleared, it was just dark, and I had condensation on the sides of the DJ, which made me think it was cloudy. When I noticed it was cleared, I assumed it had finished fermenting, so I quickly bottled it into a 5l pet bottle (wasn't going to carbonate it and put it in glass bottles, just wanted to see what it tasted like, I might make a 15l batch if it's good.

Anyway - Bottled it, decided to take an FG reading and it's only down to 1.018!! From approx 1.050. So it's only about 3%, but it's lovely anyway, so sweet, like a thick syrupy dessert wine, but there's a tiny amount of sparkle, and none of that nasty twang that some of my other ciders have had. Lovely! I might do another and leave it six weeks. I need me a temp. controlled chest freezer.

Cheers,
Craig

[pauljmuk]

Having re-read this thread, I'm liking idea of crabapples in a TC - mainly cos i got loads in the garden - anyone ever try it?

[craigmarshall]

Having re-read this thread, I'm liking idea of crabapples in a TC - mainly cos i got loads in the garden - anyone ever try it?

I haven't tried it. I thought the fruits in my garden were crabapples (we've only moved in this spring), but they're actually turning out to be quinces. Not necessarily bad for a cider, but crabapples they ain't. I'd be interested to know whether it works though, I think people might be more likely to give crabapples away.

Cheers,
Craig

[DREADSKIN]

if you have carb apples deffinitly add them. people add them when makng cider to give that must needed tannin boost if using just eaters and cookers.