Elderflower 'champagne' - BBC recipe

[carlh5]

Hi,

Has anyone made the BBC h2g2 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A593363) elderflower champagne?

I've made it yesterday as I'm short on time, heading off on holiday for a week tomorrow, and it seemed quick and easy. It all looks/smells ok but not a hint of fermentation so I'm wondering if it may end up more like a cordial. Do you think it would help to add a bit of sugar when bottling?

Any advice appreciated!

Thanks Carl

[boingy]

I made the River Cottage one last year with great success.

http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipes/c ... gne-recipe

There is a dramatic difference in the amount of elderflowers between the two recipes.
The RC one lists a pinch of yeast as optional but I would say it is pretty much essential. Why gamble on their being enough wild yeast on the flowers when you can chuck in a bit of el cheapo wine yeast from Wilko?

[carlh5]

Thanks, I'll try that and maybe have a second go using the River Cottage recipe if the flowers are still out in a weeks time

[testtube]

If I remember right he used bread yeast if it was needed! I would get some decent yeast, maybe champagne yeast, but you can have a look at Vinters Harvest yeast chart for which suits best also. You don't want to go to all that effort picking and trimming.. The recipe I have from First Steps In Winemaking - C.J.J Berry:-

500ml Elderflowers not pressed down
1.5K Sugar
250g Raisins (chopped) or 140ml White concentrate
3 Lemons
1tsp Grape tannin
4.5L Water

Trim elderflowers
Bring water to boil pour over flowers
Add rasins/conc + lemon juice
When cool (21C) add yeast + tannin + nutrient
Cover well and leave to ferment for 4/5 days in a warm place
Strain into demi-john leave to ferment out etc..

[second2none]

Yeah these recipes use the old school technec of cultivating natural yeasts found on the berryies (and in the raisins in the recipe above)
and therefor you only need to add any yeast (bread, ale or champagne) if fermentation hasnt started.

This point is VERY important .... when making any of the recipes on the this page at no point do you boil anything like you would with TC's
because this will kill off all the yeasts you are natually trying to cultivate and your brew just wont work.
And because you arent boiling anything there is an increased chance that you will get nasties in ur brew so you must keep your eye on it for any signs of mold etc.
Cultivating ur own yeast is very rewarding and leads to a unique champagne, but you have to weigh ur willingness to go this far against just boiling everything up
and throwing some general purpose yeast in when its cooled!

Natural Fementing was done in the past because brewing yeasts were very lazy, expensive and hard to get hold of.

[jmc]

Yeah these recipes use the old school technec of cultivating natural yeasts found on the berryies (and in the raisins in the recipe above)
and therefor you only need to add any yeast (bread, ale or champagne) if fermentation hasnt started.

This point is VERY important .... when making any of the recipes on the this page at no point do you boil anything like you would with TC's
because this will kill off all the yeasts you are natually trying to cultivate and your brew just wont work.
And because you arent boiling anything there is an increased chance that you will get nasties in ur brew so you must keep your eye on it for any signs of mold etc.
Cultivating ur own yeast is very rewarding and leads to a unique champagne, but you have to weigh ur willingness to go this far against just boiling everything up
and throwing some general purpose yeast in when its cooled!

Natural Fementing was done in the past because brewing yeasts were very lazy, expensive and hard to get hold of.

Hi second2none

I agree with you to a point in that you can go 2 ways with this.

Plan A) The CJJ Berry route of pouring boiling water on flowers and raisins (which is likely to kill all yeast & wildlife), or
Plan B) Go with a lower temp soak and rely on yeast on elderflowers / in the air.

Personally I'd rather choose what yeast to add, so last year I placed elderflowers + lemon rind in a mash bag ( I happend to have) and then poured about 4pts of boiling water on them, left for 10 mins and then dissolved in sugar, nutrient, lemon juice etc and when cool, a proper brewing yeast. I left elderflowers in mash bag for a week before taking mash bag out.
(You could use a smaller muslin / hop bag instead. It just makes removing flowers much easier.

BTW: I added some elderflowers to a beer I did last weekend. I'd recommend you thoroughly shake them before adding them to anything. There were loads of tiny insects in the ones I picked

As with all bottling I'd recommend an SG test so that brew same SG for 2-3 days and less than 1005 before bottling to avoid bottle bombs.

I'd encourage anyone to have a go at this, very easy and last year's elderflower was lovely...

ATB John

[testtube]

Yeah these recipes use the old school technec of cultivating natural yeasts found on the berryies (and in the raisins in the recipe above)
and therefor you only need to add any yeast (bread, ale or champagne) if fermentation hasnt started.

This point is VERY important .... when making any of the recipes on the this page at no point do you boil anything like you would with TC's
because this will kill off all the yeasts you are natually trying to cultivate and your brew just wont work.
And because you arent boiling anything there is an increased chance that you will get nasties in ur brew so you must keep your eye on it for any signs of mold etc.
Cultivating ur own yeast is very rewarding and leads to a unique champagne, but you have to weigh ur willingness to go this far against just boiling everything up
and throwing some general purpose yeast in when its cooled!

Natural Fementing was done in the past because brewing yeasts were very lazy, expensive and hard to get hold of.

Hi second2none

I agree with you to a point in that you can go 2 ways with this.

Plan A) The CJJ Berry route of pouring boiling water on flowers and raisins (which is likely to kill all yeast & wildlife), or
Plan B) Go with a lower temp soak and rely on yeast on elderflowers / in the air.

Personally I'd rather choose what yeast to add, so last year I placed elderflowers + lemon rind in a mash bag ( I happend to have) and then poured about 4pts of boiling water on them, left for 10 mins and then dissolved in sugar, nutrient, lemon juice etc and when cool, a proper brewing yeast. I left elderflowers in mash bag for a week before taking mash bag out.
(You could use a smaller muslin / hop bag instead. It just makes removing flowers much easier.

BTW: I added some elderflowers to a beer I did last weekend. I'd recommend you thoroughly shake them before adding them to anything. There were loads of tiny insects in the ones I picked

As with all bottling I'd recommend an SG test so that brew same SG for 2-3 days and less than 1005 before bottling to avoid bottle bombs.

I'd encourage anyone to have a go at this, very easy and last year's elderflower was lovely...

ATB John

Well said! Insects, yeah I had that problem too, crawling up the walls etc., I did 23L, was infested! I have some Elderflower cordial wine on at the moment, bit of an expensive experiment, hoping it comes out ok!

[boingy]

You will get a different flavour if you scald the flowers with boiling water.
I followed the RC recipe to the letter except that I opted to add dried yeast immediately rather than waiting to see if the wild yeasts would get going. I don't think it is necessary to get proper champagne yeast, any old stuff will do (yes, even bread yeast!).

The basis for me adding the yeast immediately rather than waiting is my one and only experience of cider making about 20 years ago. We pulped and juiced bucketfuls of apples using only a hand mincer and a tea towel and trusted that the yeasts present on the apples would work. They didn't work and we ended up with 2 gallons of stinking apple juice. Once bitten....

[testtube]

You can have a look at this

http://www.vintnersharvest.com/loadasse ... +Guide.pdf

They are only £1.30 for a packet which will do 5 gallon. Young's wine yeast is £1. I don't use all the packet for a gallon, then seal it and pop it in the freezer.

[boingy]

I already had a pot of Young's finest el cheapo generic wine yeast, about £2 for a 60g pot from Wilko. If I did not have that I would have just re-used some beer yeast from a brew. We're not really making finest champagne here, just a sort of alcoholic cordial to be drunk young on a sunny patio. Incidentally, you might be surprised how good a beer you can make with bread yeast...

[second2none]

Using bread yeast for brewing is like
Putting diesel in ur petrol engine!

Haha nar just joking
I love the way people get so worked up about using bread yeast!
(And its normally from people who haven't actually tried it)

[testtube]

I already had a pot of Young's finest el cheapo generic wine yeast, about £2 for a 60g pot from Wilko. If I did not have that I would have just re-used some beer yeast from a brew. We're not really making finest champagne here, just a sort of alcoholic cordial to be drunk young on a sunny patio. Incidentally, you might be surprised how good a beer you can make with bread yeast...

I heard bread yeast gives a funny flavour, can't remember what now. I might try it on a gallon though when I brew in a couple of days. Smashing if it does come out good, specially the price of beer yeast..

[testtube]

Using bread yeast for brewing is like
Putting diesel in ur petrol engine!

Haha nar just joking
I love the way people get so worked up about using bread yeast!
(And its normally from people who haven't actually tried it)

I should think some brewer's, chemist's and captain's of industry would probably become violent having spent all that time and effort with yeast and flavour profiles etc. etc., when all along they could have gone thrown a load bread yeast in!

[MMBrewing]

not champagne but mum and I knocked up a gallon of cordial from the local elderflowers, they seem especially fragrant this year and we'll be going out again in a couple of weeks to bag a big load for more cordial (the stuff in the supermarkets being a tad expensive) we stayed well away from bushes near to traffic and I think this contributed to the quality of the flower heads. out recipe called for a *LOT* of citric acid as well as the lemons and a big dollop of sugar, personally im going to scale back the citric acid and sugar as i want more floweryness to the next batch.