Yeasty bottley keggy questions.

[simple one]

Right here we go. Still have a few nagging questions in the back of my mind:

Bottling/kegging with yeast. Stronger in alcohol and hops, the better the presevation. I am assuming also that no/very little yeast in the bottle (bottling carb'ed from a keg) means that it also has poorer longevity.

- How does having yeast in a bottle for so long (i haveheard of beers put down for years) not ruin the beer by yeast autoylsis (yeast death, not sure i spelt it right)?

Top Fermenting. Reading GW book he states that the yeast should be skimmed if it is in danger of falling back in to the beer.

- Why? I thought I was meant to allow it to drop. Am I meant to be skimming? I can't believe I am confused about this after countless AG and Kits.

Lastly,

Bottling from FV. Again in GW it states its bad practice to bottle straight from FV.

- Should it not be the only way? Otherwise, you lose the yeast in the beer once its dropped clear. I suppose you could re-yeast, but the GW book also says priming isn't needed if the beer is conditioned long enough.


If you didn't realise, I have just got the GW book. It's really good, I would highly recconmend it (as if it needed it!).

[simple one]

Thanks for a very comprehensive answer Chris.

So the top fermenting yeasts which have a very hard yeast head wouldn't be good for bottling then? Or do they all eventually settle down given enough time?

[simple one]

Smashing. Cheers Chris.

[Graham]

Top Fermenting. Reading GW book he states that the yeast should be skimmed if it is in danger of falling back in to the beer.

There is a problem with most yeasts supplied through home-brewing channels in that the industrial forced propagation of these on glucose knackers their top-working characteristics, assuming that it was top-working in the first place, which might not always be the case. Any yeast that sits on the surface is being carried up by the carbon dioxide bubbles, and as soon as fermentation slows it drops in. Skimming of at least the top layer is advocated because there is often dried, crusty, dead yeast and crud on the top of this, which could well give you your first experience of yeast-bite or autolysis if it drops in. However, if fermentation is close to completion it is just as well to skim the lot off and cover the vessel loosely with the lid. You have to get rid of the yeast at some point, skimming is the traditional way of doing it, and the stuff sitting on top isn't doing any useful work.

Traditional ale yeasts however rise to the top and stay there right through to the end, unless the beer is suddenly chilled. Some strains need to be stirred back in to maintain fermentation rate because they prefer sitting on top. At the end of fermentation you have the choice of skimming or running the beer out from under the head using the tap - which is what I do.

- Why? I thought I was meant to allow it to drop. Am I meant to be skimming? I can't believe I am confused about this after countless AG and Kits.

I wouldn't say that it was meant to drop in. If fermentation is progressing normally, you already have plenty of yeast in suspension. If you let it drop in, some will end up in suspension, and it is more to get out again. It probably doesn't do any harm with a bottom-worker though. If fermentation isn't progressing normally it is probably a different matter. You have to take your pick on that one.

Bottling from FV. Again in GW it states its bad practice to bottle straight from FV.

- Should it not be the only way? Otherwise, you lose the yeast in the beer once its dropped clear. I suppose you could re-yeast, but the GW book also says priming isn't needed if the beer is conditioned long enough.

Bottle-conditioned for long enough. You will never get all the yeast out of a beer no matter how bright it looks; with the exception, perhaps, of very efficient fining. There is always sufficient yeast and sufficient fermentable matter to bring the bottles into condition. Obviously the less yeast there is the longer it will take, and the yeast munching at dextrins is a slow process anyway.

I personally would not fine a beer destined for bottling, but there is no harm in priming should you feel like it. If you are in a hurry, if a high quantity of sugar is used in the recipe, or if the beer is low gravity, priming might be a good idea.

If you look at the Bass bottling instructions on Page 78 of that book. This was taken from A Glass Of Pale Ale published in 1880, which is a description of the Bass brewery. The pale ale in question would have been about 1060 at a guess. In those days the ale was usually brewed in the winter and stored in the casks until ready, usually in the open air, even in summer. Shoved on a railway truck and transported to London. Stored in Bass's ale store beneath St. Pancras Station. Transported to the pub and stored in the cellar until it dropped bright. Then bottled. There is a lot of time between brewing and bottling. There was no priming because it was illegal at that point. Of course, if the stuff was shipped to India before bottling... Things were not that much different for bottle-conditioned beers in the 1950s, although not as dramatic as the Bass example.

[simple one]

Thanks Graham. Very informative.
How come you know so much about brewing? What's your background?

[mac]

Thanks Graham. Very informative.
How come you know so much about brewing? What's your background?

Simple one,
You would think someone with that much knowledge would write a book about Brewing Your Own British Real Ale, or even one that people could use to Brew Classic European Beers at Home.

[simple one]

I don't follow your last post. I think I am missing something (no its not a brain!).

[wmfd]

Bottling from FV. Again in GW it states its bad practice to bottle straight from FV.

- Should it not be the only way? Otherwise, you lose the yeast in the beer once its dropped clear. I suppose you could re-yeast, but the GW book also says priming isn't needed if the beer is conditioned long enough.

Bottle-conditioned for long enough. You will never get all the yeast out of a beer no matter how bright it looks; with the exception, perhaps, of very efficient fining. There is always sufficient yeast and sufficient fermentable matter to bring the bottles into condition. Obviously the less yeast there is the longer it will take, and the yeast munching at dextrins is a slow process anyway.

I personally would not fine a beer destined for bottling, but there is no harm in priming should you feel like it. If you are in a hurry, if a high quantity of sugar is used in the recipe, or if the beer is low gravity, priming might be a good idea.

Thanks Graham, I'd sat last night reading the book and scratching my head - "bottling from a keg??!!" (it's not the way I normally do it etc...)

So the fact is that priming is a way of speeding things up. By instead kegging and letting it condition, then bottling it and giving it time to carry on working we get the yeast working with the dextrins but without the sudden sugar driven rush of activity!

Presumably this also means less volume of yeast in the bottles?

I think I can now see why PET bottles are a no-no, we're talking about much longer in the bottle than I'd anticipated.

Time, very much under-rated.

Thanks again, illuminating,

David

[Xring10]

Hi Simple One. If you check out the sig of Graham's post you will understand.

[simple one]

Yes I know. I have had PMs explaining. I meant did he work in the brewing industry, scientist or a very devoted home brewer.