Mash temperatures for Lager

[Cheshire-cheese]

I have only made one Lager previously and it was very successful, if you ignore the fact that I left it unattended too long and scorched some of the grains on the element, which did give it a slightly smoky flavour which worked very well and was passed off as intentional
Now I come to make another larger, a Grolsch clone#, my equipment is a little different and I am wondering whether to change technique. Previously my mash had a stepped temperature which meant I needed to use my boiler as a mash tun - hence the scorched grain when left unattended. Can one mash lager malt at a single temperature in an insulated mash tun or shall I proceed as before but pull my finger out and stir it more frequently?

#I assume on here when we are emulating a brand of beer, we say "clone"

[sam c]

hi,
sorry i dont know the answer to your question but it would you mind putting up your grolsh clone recipe?

cheers

[Cheshire-cheese]

Sure! It's around here somewhere, give me a mo. I have the ingredients already:
3kg Crushed Lager Malt
100g Crystal Malt
Hallertau / Hersbrucker hops

From a bit of googling, it seems that the gradual stepping-up in temperature (Decoction?) was done "...because the malts of the late 1800's had lesser enzyme ability. The malt was subjected to idle conditions to activate enzymes in a gradual upward swing of temperatures. This is done gradually as to not damage or de-nature enzyme activity... [but]...most brewers base malts of today are highly modified and require a single temperature for conversion. So why... brew by decoction? The key to a malty complex lager would require some cooking of the mash at different temperatures...
Low temperatures give over sweet bready flavours and aromas.
High temperatures give a lager a rich caramel flavour.
Boiling the mash will achieve a toasted malt flavour."

[steve_flack]

You can do a single temperature infusion mash with almost all lager malts (except specialised undermodified ones that are pretty rare). Although a decoction mash does add certain flavours to a lager, decoctions are fairly rare these days with a stepped temperature mash being more common in German brewing. You can fake the effect of a decoction with speciality malts such as Melanoidin.

[Cheshire-cheese]

Cheers Steve. I think I'll go for the "stirring now and then" stepped method, then seek out this Melanoidin malt for a future brew.

[sam c]

[quote="Cheshire-cheese"]Sure! It's around here somewhere, give me a mo. I have the ingredients already:
3kg Crushed Lager Malt
100g Crystal Malt
Hallertau / Hersbrucker hops


cheers for the recipe. i take it its a 23 litre brew length? and how much and how long for the hops if you dont mind me asking?

[Cheshire-cheese]

Don't mind you asking at all. I've only posted my shopping list so far as I haven't laid my hand on the recipe - I think I left it at the brewery. I have a feeling that the recipe requires a little over 3kg and makes 3 Gal, but I will tell you for sure as soon as I get the details.

[sam c]

ah i see.i will have a look again later to see if you have found it.

[Cheshire-cheese]

3750g lager malt
100g crystal malt
15 litres liquor
100g hallertau hops

Liquor to 45C
Stir in grist
Raise to 55C
Leave for 30min
Raise to 66C
Leave for 1hr30 at this Temp.

Sparge to collect 20 litres
Boil withn hops for 1hr30
Adjust to 15 litres with cold water if needed.

[sam c]

cheers for that

[Cheshire-cheese]

Now, in view of what I have in stock, unless I buy more ingredients, I need to scale it down to a 12litre batch.
Using 3kg Lager Malt
80g crystal malt
80g Hersbrucker hops
and 12 litres liquor

sparge to collect 16 litres perhaps, although I doubt whether volume loss from the boil is linear with scaling down, so maybe 17 litres at start of boil?

[steve_flack]

You do seem to be losing a lot of water in your boil. Really you should be aiming at around 10% per hour - any more is really not necessary and possibly detrimental.

[Cheshire-cheese]

I've not done the brew at all yet, I was using a recipe from a book. I agree, it did seem an awful lot to lose. Perhaps it was taking into account the liquid absorbed by the hops.

[Cheshire-cheese]

Whilst ordering some bits and bobs from http://www.leylandhomebrew.com/ I discovered that they sell lager malt in small quantities (multiples of 500g) So have bought enough to follow the original recipe. Vair quick service at leyland home brew