Gypsum vs. Calcium Chloride for Dubble

[adm]

Tomorrow I'm going to attempt a Dubbel type beer (that will be the base for a Christmas Spiced Dubbel). As I want the beer to be more malty than my regular hoppy type brews, should I use Calcium Chloride flakes instead of Gypsum.


Normally I will treat the alkalinity to about 20mg/l CaC03 and then add a teaspoon of gypsum to each of the mash and the boil - however if I want to go more towards the Chloride end of the spectrum (correct for a maltier beer?), then can I just replace the gypsum weight for weight (or spoon for spoon) with the ca. chloride ? If not, any idea how should I do it?

[Scooby]

then can I just replace the gypsum weight for weight (or spoon for spoon) with the ca. chloride ? If not, any idea how should I do it?

That's my understanding, and that it's a case of finding the right balance of the two for ones particular taste.

[OldSpeckledBadger]

Are you trying to keep the calcium levels the same?

[adm]

Yes, I think so.....just trying to modify the balance so it favours the malt instead of my usual hop focussed brews....

As far as I understand it, with all else being equal, the sulphate/chloride ratio will tend to push the flavour balance towards either hop or malt.

[mysterio]

You tried this ?

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html

I would aim for a treatment for a Mild/Brown Ale, something like a ratio of chloride to sulphate 1.5:1

Mess about with the numbers in the calc and you should be able to work it out.

The effect is pretty subtle, I find chloride actually gives the impression of improved mouthfeel rather than 'maltiness'. If you really want a malty Dubbel some dark candi sugar and/or aromatic malt is a good call.

[OldSpeckledBadger]

For the same amount of calcium 136g pure calcium sulphate is equivalent to 111 g pure calcium chloride. Your problem is going to be that calcium chloride is hygroscopic (in powder form it absorbs water) and you can't be sure how much water it's absorbed. Are other people telling you that your beer is not malty enough?

[adm]

You tried this ?

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html

I would aim for a treatment for a Mild/Brown Ale, something like a ratio of chloride to sulphate 1.5:1

Mess about with the numbers in the calc and you should be able to work it out.

The effect is pretty subtle, I find chloride actually gives the impression of improved mouthfeel rather than 'maltiness'. If you really want a malty Dubbel some dark candi sugar and/or aromatic malt is a good call.

Cheers, I've used GW's calc a lot (just using the presets though), but to be honest, for pale hoppy beers the good old "teaspoon of gypsum" approach works just as well (with my water anyway). I've still been using it for Stouts (but without the regular table salt addition as I find that makes it a bit too salty for my taste). Although I haven't really understood (or tried to understand) the sulphate/chloride ration bit up until now, and I've never been able to use it to achieve a "clean" lager type water profile - but that's because my water already has too many minerals in it. But thinking about a Dubbel as a Mild or Brown Ale from a water perspective makes sense, so maybe I'll give it a crack in the morning.

[adm]

I wouldn't rely on water treatment to give you a maltier beer. Add some caramunich to your recipe.

Ain't got none......

The "relevant" malts I have are:

Pale (MO)
Lager
Munich
Medium Crystal
Pale Crystal
Crystal Wheat
Wheat
CaraRed

(I've also got Flaked Barley, Roast, Carafa III, Choc, Lager, Caramalt, Light Crystal and Torry Wheat.....but I've kind of discounted them...)

Right now, I'm thinking Pale/Munich/CaraRed/Crystal/Crystal Wheat/......in that order......plus Dark Candi (homemade from Muscovado)

And MAYBE.....some raisins chopped up and dropped into the end of primary, or secondary. Might not bother with this though.

[adm]

I used a kilo of Munich in today's beer.....plus I did the water profile for Mild from GW's calculator. It came out with about a 1:2 ratio Gypsum/CaCl.