All the gear no idea

[Scooby]

If he's calculating on a16l brew length then 35g of 6% hops for 90mins with 27% utilisation would be 35IBU

[pas8280]

Think its getting a bit technical i understand the maths (i think) but not the formulae is it always the acidity x 2 multiplied by hop quantity divided by quantity of brew length that gives ibu and how does the length of boil affect it ? what is the 27% utilisation ? ( i cant help it if i was born in Horwich)

[Northern Brewer]

35IBU is a good starting point.

Multiply IBU by brew length to get total. 35 x 23 = 805

805 divided by hop's acid (times 2) = 805 divided by 12 = 67g of hops required.

Sums work either way. Change the side, change the sign, as my algebra teacher said.

You can safely ignore utilisation at this stage in the game. The rationale behind the maths is to produce some consistency with future brews.

[pas8280]

Gottcha Northern Brewer i understand now any idea what the .34 malts are ? just bagged as 200g of .34 iv got loads of hops left now my maths are getting better for the next brew he he thanks a million

[Northern Brewer]

Gottcha Northern Brewer i understand now any idea what the .34 malts are ? just bagged as 200g of .34 iv got loads of hops left now my maths are getting better for the next brew he he thanks a million

Gottcha Northern Brewer i understand now any idea what the .34 malts are ? just bagged as 200g of .34 iv got loads of hops left now my maths are getting better for the next brew he he thanks a million

Good. Saw myself having to come down the M6 at one point

I am not really in a position to advise regarding the .34, having never seen, let alone used, it. Personally, I would pop-up to J28 for a 99p bag of crystal, or just stick to using the Optic, either alone, or with some torrified wheat. The last thing you need in your first brews is too many variables.

[Scooby]

35IBU is a good starting point.

Multiply IBU by brew length to get total. 35 x 23 = 805

805 divided by hop's acid (times 2) = 805 divided by 12 = 67g of hops required.

Sums work either way. Change the side, change the sign, as my algebra teacher said.

You can safely ignore utilisation at this stage in the game. The rationale behind the maths is to produce some consistency with future brews.

If you are doing a 16l brew 67g of 6% hops will give you 68 IBU
if you are doing a 23l brew 67g of 6% hops will give you 47IBU

I'm sorry but you cannot ignore utilisation!

[Northern Brewer]

I'm sorry but you cannot ignore utilisation!

Whilst relevant, I'm unconvinced that pas8280 needs to get embroiled with such topics at this stage in the game. I want him him to brew beer, not worry.

Neither of us has a clue what level of bitterness he likes, we can only speculate what his utilisation will be, and of course, we haven't got a clue what the true acid content of his hops is.

Fo pas8280's information, the fact that I multiply the acid level by 2, represents the fact that I am assuming a home brew utilisation of 20%. Scooby is multiplying by 2.7, this representing his preferred utilisation figure of 27%. Different brewing processes = different utilisations. I have absolutely no idea what my utilisation efficiency is but I do know how much bitterness I enjoy. I have used a benchmark figure of 20% throughout my brewing career and it has always worked for me.

Think of this in terms of measuring sugar into coffee with a teaspoon. People generally know how many spoonfuls they like. Unlike sugar, hops vary in bitterness and the purpose of doing the sums is to help you establish a reference point that you can return to. If sugar had similar variations, then knowing that 1 teaspoon of 50% sugar equated to 2 teaspoons of 25% sugar would be useful to a coffee drinker. Changing the size of the teaspoon (a.k.a.utilisation) would screw-up the coffee, but your methods will be the same, so the spoon stays the same.

Once you've knocked out your first brew you can decide upon whether you like the bitterness level and adjust accordingly. Like myself, you will probably never get to know what your utilisation figure is, but all things being equal, it should always be fairly constant and therefore ignorable for now.

[Scooby]

We have the same end in helping pas8280 brew beer, whilst I agree with most of what you say I feel 35g is more appropriate than 47g

You do have to assume a utilisation figure to work out the amount of hops to use, and you assume 20%

Obviously these are only a guide but the common advice is to use 27% for a beer of that strength and IMO 20% is excessively low
and will result in a beer with to much bitterness, (irrespective of personal taste or spoon size)

If the EBU you calculated had been just a bit over then fair enough, but as pas8280 has no AA% with his hops and 47 EBU
is well over the 35 EBU you and I suggest I feel it right to raise the point and to err on the safe side.

pas8280 have a look at the Hop rate calculator

This is the formula I use

(EBU x 10 x Vol brewed) / (AA% x Utilisation%) = Weight of Hops

Your hops could be 5.7-6.3%

You're than armed with all the info you need to decide how many hops to throw in the boil

[Northern Brewer]

Obviously these are only a guide but the common advice is to use 27% for a beer of that strength and IMO 20% is excessively low
and will result in a beer with to much bitterness, (irrespective of personal taste or spoon size)

All I can say, is that our methods must vary enormously. I've been working on 20% ever since Graham came up with the figure in the 1990s (same formula as you quote) and I've never produced a hop monster yet. My aim is to encourage people into brewing, not bitter them to death.

You're than armed with all the info you need to decide how many hops to throw in the boil

The upside to this debate is that he will hopefully not be chucking in 450g as originally planned

[Scooby]

All I can say, is that our methods must vary enormously. I've been working on 20% ever since Graham came up with the figure in the 1990s (same formula as you quote) and I've never produced a hop monster yet. My aim is to encourage people into brewing, not bitter them to death.

Yep, but he in his new book it's; 'Somewhere between 20 and 35%' He goes for 25%

The upside to this debate is that he will hopefully not be chucking in 450g as originally planned

We aren't that far out in our estimates but 450g would have soaked up all the wort

[pas8280]

Thanks to you both for your replies i have tried to take it on board what you have both said i suppose i will know better where i am after the first brew and can then adjust accordingly definatly wont be putting in 450g though i will make sure everything i do is documented and will ensure that i know the AA% of future hop purchases will let everyone know how i get on.Oh and will be looking to upgrade kit ASAP will make things simpler cheers all

[Scooby]

I may be able to help you there.......... watch this space, or should I say the articles for sale section

Good luck with the brew and come back with any questions for another friendly debate

[aus069]

Blinking Heck and the micro brewery guru gave me 450g to put in !!!!!!!!! what would that have tasted like ? First time i have used the beer engine good innit dont want to delay my first brew by sorting new boiler etc so i think im stuck with it till at least the new year. So will go with what i have anyone know what the .35 dark grains are ? will the Nottingham yeast do for now, Gypsum not got any but will try my best before Tuesday i have campden tabs which i was going to stick in the liqour unfortunatly patience doesnt seem to be one of my virtues when i am close to my goal but i do learn from my mistakes and gratefully accept advice of more knowledgeable folk

I put the recipe into beersmith as per quoted weight and for a 16Lt batch the IBU's came out at 264.9 thats what I call a IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPA technically the tongue could not taste it . You would only want to use a total of around 60 gm 35 gm for 60 min and 25 gm for the last 10-20 min , this will give you 35 IBU .

Cheers
aus069

[adm]

I wouldn't put 1Kg of torrefied wheat in that brew - more like 100g or so just for head retention. The torry has a funny taste to it and you don't want to overdo it in my opinion.

[pas8280]

Just in the middle of this first brew ended up 3.5k of the optic and 75g torrified wheat and 130g of the dark malt (whatever it is) all thanks to a member that PM me (you know who you are and thanks) in the mash at the moment will be doing first runnings in 10mins so fingers crossed