50% success rate continues...

[Philipek]

On a serious note. Do excercise extreme caution especially when doing something that's new to you. Aside from the Chemicals mentioned here there are various area's in the hobby capable of causing harm. I.e. Lifting Hazards and Dangers with Electricity and Gas among others.

And massive quantities of scalding hot liquid.

There was a thread in the tap room about the dangers of home brew. I was tempted to mention all of the above.

Bevanjon. Sorry for confusing you with Gasluka, likewise Gazluka. And a tentative hurrah! for the beer so far.

It's an interesting thought you raise with the chlorine levels in tapwater. I've heard that, here in Toronto, they crank the levels of Chloramines way up during the summer to deal with the happy little bugs. They may do a similar thing where you are.

I'd been blitzing my tapwater with campden tablets and boiling it well to get the carbonates out. But, as I said earlier, I'm beginning to think that my TCP was down to high fermentation temperatures. Another brewer down the road from me consistently has a problem with phenolics. I asked him what he thought that was down to. He shrugged and said "ambient microflora". So going from infected tubing to infected carboys, if this brew doesn't turn out well, I'm going to put it down to 'infected house'!

I believe that chlorophenols do not go away, am I right? Whereas phenolics caused by infection will increase with time, and phenolics caused by SO4 and high fermentation temperatures will go down with time. Or did I dream it?

I've only got a few brews left. I don't have to buy them yet, but it's getting down to the wire.

[Madbrewer]

..........including in my own case, lifting a 25 litres MT full of grains and fluid at about 75C onto a table so that I can sparge into the boiler. Something that fills me with horror every time, as I imagine the handle breaking, the contents spilling out on my legs and the skin peeling off my bones . I really should change my system and get a "tower" setup with the hot liquor tank securely fastened at the top!

Actually My thermo-box handle DID break mid lift. I would recommend not relying on the handle alone. I.e Perhaps lift the thermo box as you would a box rather than relying on this somewhat wimpy handle. Luckily with me it didn't cause any injury but as you say - it is a hazard.


Philipek & bevanjon, I think what you might need now is something to restore a little confidence in the hobby. Could you do a smaller brew and ferment in a glass demi jon? (or even ferment a larger batch over two/three of them?). By not using your placcy bucket and by minimising exposure to airborn fauna you would (hopefully) have something great to drink and after doing it two/ three times should have more confidence in the rest of your technique and your own ability to produce great beer? Failing the glass demi jon route - you could also try a 5 gallon plastic wine fermenter. Last check these were about £12 from my local HBS. Alas if you did get this problem still you might also re-assess it as being not the fermenter and be c,loser to finding the source of the problem!

[Philipek]

Hello Madbrewer,
Thanks for the support and advice. I took the gravity of my TEA clone and drank the sample. Tasted great. Will bottle very soon. Next up, guinness clone (to make black and tans).

With regard to the plastic wine fermenter. We don't have them in Canada, at least not where I do my homebrew shopping. However, there is a wine shop up the road from me that sells carboys at 22 dollars for 20 litres and 25 for 23 litres. They do US gallon demijohns at $3.95, wine yeast at 50 cents a packet. Much TC has been made and imbibed with no evidence of wild yeast infections. That has somewhat restored my faith and hope in the hobby, hence the TEA clone.

I'm going to chuck my carboy in the oven and set it for 350 C for 3 hours. Apparently that sterilizes.

I also have reason to believe that my digital thermometer may be off, hence high fermentation temperatures (and high mash temperatures ) But I'll have to compare with another homebrewer's thermometer.

Phil

[bevanjon74]

Well....just kegged the Hobgoblin clone, and guess what... it tasted like proper beer... no nasty flavours.. (even though I think my brain is looking for that TCP taste in even purchased bottles of beer at the mo!!)
Success..
I think the ASDA water, and the rinse with Campden has done the job...

Now to wait and try the finished article... and get more beer on the go in time for Xmas.

Cheers everyone for your advice and support!

BJ74

[farmhousekeg]

I think the ASDA water, and the rinse with Campden has done the job...

Now to wait and try the finished article... and get more beer on the go in time for Xmas.

Cheers everyone for your advice and support!

BJ74

Well done - My vote goes to the "Campden rinse"............. I had my one and only brew this summer which developed a TCP taste and I have used "the rinse" technique ever since. Before using this technique I always had the slight whiff of Chlorine, even after double rinsing my bottles, although I only ever got the TCP thing once. However, after using the "Campden rinse" on my bottles there is no detectable Chlorine smell at all.

I reckon that's been your problem all along. I suggest you do a brew next time with EVERYTHING the same, except substitute the ASDA water with tap water which has been treated with a Campden tablet. One tablet per 25 litres of any water coming in contact with your brewing process, either for mashing, sparging or cleaning will be more than enough.

[beermonsta]

Hi folks a few more of us with similar problems/success stories - hope you don't mind me cross linking.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27727&p=308035#p308035

Cheers,
Ben

[bevanjon74]

Quick update... the 50% is over!!!
My last two brews turned out perfect!!!

Thank you sooooo much guys for all your advice. Hope others with the same problem get to grips with it... Like Farmhouse says I honestly think the Campden Tab rinse definately does the biz, as well as using bottled water..

Nice shed full of beer for the Crimbo period!!! None of it at all medicinal!! Hurrah!

[Guzluka]

I think the ASDA water, and the rinse with Campden has done the job...

I suppose the asda water is down to using bottled water in your brew? What is the campden rinse?

[Hoodlum]

another cause of phenolic flavours can be infection with a wild strain of airborne yeast. Do you ferment under airlock? Is it a seasonal thing?...

I'd also go for a new FV, and stick with the water treatment to drive off chlorine.

[OldSpeckledBadger]

another cause of phenolic flavours can be infection with a wild strain of airborne yeast. Do you ferment under airlock?

You don't need an airlock to make beer. There are still commercial breweries which ferment in open FVs so please don't go dredging up that old airlock myth. When I started brewing as a teenager back in the late 60s the only sanitising chemical we had was Campden tablets (regarded as useless these days), I used an ordinary plastic bucket as the FV (no cover) and had to leave the beer to cool naturally before pitching the yeast. In spite of all that I, as a teenage boy with nothing more than Ken Shales book and a bit of knowledge of Chemistry and Biology which I was studying for A Levels, managed to make drinkable beer without ever getting an infection.

[floydmeddler]

If I have an infected FV (is this possible for something to linger even after sanitising?) - should I just chuck it and get a new one? Or is there an alternative - like a massively strong clean that would get it back to normal???

You could buy a cheap Young's fermenter for around a tenner. Don't put any taps on it as bacteria can harbour in and around the nooks and crannies. Alternatively, you can draw 5L of wort off and ferment it in a 5L water bottle (get them in al the big supermarkets). Ferment the rest in its usual fermenter and see what the difference is. If you do this, make sure you keep the 5L water bottle in a dark place as you don't want it sunstruck.

Hope this helps.

[Hoodlum]

another cause of phenolic flavours can be infection with a wild strain of airborne yeast. Do you ferment under airlock?

You don't need an airlock to make beer. There are still commercial breweries which ferment in open FVs so please don't go dredging up that old airlock myth. When I started brewing as a teenager back in the late 60s the only sanitising chemical we had was Campden tablets (regarded as useless these days), I used an ordinary plastic bucket as the FV (no cover) and had to leave the beer to cool naturally before pitching the yeast. In spite of all that I, as a teenage boy with nothing more than Ken Shales book and a bit of knowledge of Chemistry and Biology which I was studying for A Levels, managed to make drinkable beer without ever getting an infection.

I stand well and truly corrected. Must check what I read before posting.....

[WHL]

Hope others with the same problem get to grips with it... Like Farmhouse says I honestly think the Campden Tab rinse definately does the biz, as well as using bottled water..

Great thread. I've been struggling with the same issues the last few months. My name is Bill and I'm ready to come to grips with chlorine in my brewing process!

[bevanjon74]

Hi Bill
It seems a real problem with a few people on here, but I have started using bottled water and emplying the "campden rinse" and I've had two cracking AG brews - and cross fingers, all the problems have gone! Hope the experiments in this thread help sort it for you.
BJ74

[Philipek]

I think my phenolics came from junk from the kettle getting into the fermenter. Old Speckled Badger mentioned this on a couple of threads a while back and no one commented on it. I'd never heard of break and hop material causing phenolics; in fact, I had read somewhere that it's not too bad if a little bit of trub gets into the fermenter - it's food for the yeast.

I was very careless with the trub for my TEA clone but fastidious with my Guinness. Lo, my Guinness is phenolic free and my TEA is quite phenolicky. And there I was obsessing about airlocks, seals on my fermenter, and all manner of sanitation issues.