what causes ......

[mysterio]

From my perspective, the top 3 influences on the sweetness of a beer are

1) OG (higher OG and by extension, higher FG, sweeter beer)
2) Yeast (Lower attenuation, i.e. an English yeast like Fullers, means a sweeter beer)
3) Hopping (Less bittering hops, and even flavour hops, means a more sweet impression)

I really don't care about mash temperature, I just pick a middling mash temp (67 ish) and mash almost every beer at that temperature. It ain't going to change the sweetness.

[pas8280]

I realise it is a low temp but that was the idea to replicate the original brew and only change the mash temp and try and keep everything else exactly the same yep my hydrometer is ok and beer engine predicted my FG exactly, the comparrison brew OG was exactly the same so its down to the taste test i think.
Personally i dont think there will be much difference i think JK has a different palate to myself and it tastes sweet to him and very nice to me perhaps other members who have made this recipe could post their opinion on how their brew tasted ?

[trucker5774]

I have never done the actual styrian stunner recipe, but I have used Styrians in similar quantities. I wouldn't have described the brew as sweet, but they do have a distinctive flavour. If you under do the hops it is quite a wishy washy sort of flavour which some make think was sweet compared to other bitters.

[kay-jay]

thanks chris!

don't think it was an attenuation problem as the fg was exactly as predicted by beer engine. having said that tho there is no option for which yeast you are using on that program is there?? it always seems to be right tho....

KJ

[pas8280]

Thanks for the input chris its very interesting the initial brew used Warminster maltings Optic however with this second brew its Maris Otter, the yeast from what i remember was sticking to the inside of the packet and was from LHBS i just thought that this was normal and didn't really check to see if it was part of the infected batch, the latest brew used Nottingham again but this time from Borischarlton and it struck me when pitching that it wasn't sticking to the inside of the packet.
I have kept both brews wrapped up nice and snug indoors so that shouldnt really have been an issue.
i have taken a hydro sample of the second batch today (day 3) and its reading FG 1011 which is 0ne point down on the last batch, it smells and tastes superb at the moment as did the original batch at day 3, as i recall when i bottled the first batch after ten days it wasn't as nice as it was at day 3.
I have tried as much as possible to replicate but there are too many variables and i had not even considered the fact i had used different pale malt

[Bignige]

In general mash density of 2.7:1, a mash temperature of 65C and pH of 5.3 will produce a nicely balanced beer and this is almost the industry standard.

Varying any of the above will change enzyme activity.

The 2 main saccharification enzymes Alpha and Beta Amylase work at slightly different levels but the above parameters overlap enough to ensure enough is done in the mashing to give a good result.

A higher temperature will produce greater levels of dextrins and trisaccarides because the beta-amylase, which produces maltose, will be rendered ineffective over 65C. This is a typical table of wort sugar profiles:

60 º C 65 º C 70 º C
% % %
Disaccharide 61 55 41
Trisaccharide 9 12 16
Monosaccharide 10 9 8
Dextrins 20 24 35


A density mash density of say 2.3 or 2.4:1 will produce a fuller beer due to increased protein degradation and this adds body.

Residual sweetness in most beer is due to higher trisaccharide presence (Dextrins are not sweet). This then comes down to the attenuation ability of the yeast strain.

Hope this is of interest.

[mysterio]

Interesting, Bignige. So, what makes a yeast more attenuative, say the difference between 75% apparent attenuation and 80%? Is it it's ability to ferment trisaccharides?

If so, is it fair to say then that according to those numbers, mash temp has a negligible effect on beer sweetness and it's almost all down to the yeast (and OG, i.e. more malt, more trisaccharides?)

[Dr. Dextrin]

This may just be an impression, but last year I was struggling to get sweetness into a brew by increasing the mash temperature but it just wasn't working. Then I changed from using Cocktail malt to MO and all of a sudden it was way too sweet and I had to back off a bit.

So I think the malt variety may also have an effect.

(Gave up on the Cocktail BTW as I think the flavour is far inferior.)

[kay-jay]

did you stick with the MO then dr dex?? or did you find another pale malt with a bit less sweetness? i currently brew with MO and my ales are very good so far but i would prefer them a little less sweet. any suggestions on a less sweet but still flavourful pale malt would be very much appreciated.

KJ

[EccentricDyslexic]

Hi KJ, what water profile is Pas using and what water treatment? And also, is there and possiblity that you could be confusing sweetness with mouthfeel? Still trying to get to the bottom of this one!

Steve

[kay-jay]

Hi KJ, what water profile is Pas using and what water treatment? And also, is there and possiblity that you could be confusing sweetness with mouthfeel? Still trying to get to the bottom of this one!

Steve

Hi E D,

don't know his water profile but it is the same as mine. provided by united utilities lancashire. we both use 1/2 a campden tab and a tsp of gypsum in the mash.
i am most definately not confusing sweetness for mouthfeel. it was sickly sweet and i had to force the second half of it down.
it has since come to light however that he used a different malt. he used optic for it. all our brews since have used the same MO (we go halves on a sack) and all of them have been sweet but not exsessively so. i would still prefer them a little less sweet but at least they are tasty and of a superb quality.
we have since gottwen our sticky mitts on some optic from our local micro - it will be interesting to see how this compares in terms of sweetness to the MO that i have been using.
potentially i feel that the type of pale malt could have more of an impact on sweetness than mash temp but we will see if experimentation bears out this hypothesis.

regards

KJ