No flavour?

Get advice on making beer from raw ingredients (malt, hops, water and yeast)
Blackjack

Re: No flavour?

Post by Blackjack » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:29 pm

HighHops wrote:
paulustlocust wrote: I can only describe them as lacking flavour, they have no real initial taste? There's a hint of a bitter flavour at the end, but mainly it tastes of alcohol (like spirits do, clean and strong) and quite watery.
If you're only on your 4th AG, have you bought all of the hops from the same source?

I bought some hops off the internet recently at a bargain price and when I received them, they were not the freshest. They were yellow rather than green. The beer I made from them was drinkable, but the hop freshness really let it down.

Don't know if this might be the case with your beer but I've learnt my lesson. If it looks too good to be true....
This sounds like a good plausible suggestion. Since you describe a fairly extreme effect I would say that IMHO some of the other suggestions are likely to have only a marginal effect and may send you off down the wrong track.

S04 is a perfectly sound yeast without being too "specialist" and esoteric
If you you need to carbonate or bottle and do a secondary ferment then you are only trying to hide or enhance something that is either wrong or missing.

Minor differences in the quoted alpha acids will not make a world of difference ( two of your brews have big bitterness variations anyway 6X and TT Landlord) A lot of those recipes do not use finishing hops anyway and still produce good beer

Most water is fine and detail treatment is a refinement, unless of course you do have a horrendous supply?.

You have used GW's book and your own comments suggest that you have followed good instructions and one can presume that you have got the temperatures right and the OG and FG are right?

What I would say is that the recent warm weather can be very unkind to beer and it's taste out of a 5 gallon plastic barrell will not be very exciting. All flacid and warm.

SO....finishing hops will help 20 to 30 gms of Fuggles per 5 gallon brew. To get a bit of a head and some life in the job use a handful ( 100 gms) of torrified wheat in the mash. Use an S30 cap on the barrell and give a quick blast of CO2 to blanket and push the beer out a bit smarter.

Finally, IT IS MUCH EASIER to make a strong alcoholic beer that has a full flavour than a weak one
SO... Aim for a full sweet taste of strong ale drunk quietly in half pints, Summer honey nectar. NOT.. a sharp weak quaffing thirst slaking biitter, ( it might be what you want to drink but made in the garage quite difficult in this weather.) To keep the beer slightly sweet ( make sure that you strike at 75 deg or whatever works for you) but more importantly that the mash temperature starts at 66 to 67 deg ( or even 68) and is well insulated and does not cool much, not more than 2 deg. I am just describing an old fashioned pale ale as shipped by sea and drunk in India where they have icebergs Not!.

Recipe...Aim for OG 1.050 to 1.054. Wadworth 6X is a bit weak and short on hops. TT Landlords is similar but hoppier and just needs a pound of sugar or golden slurp adding. If you want a dark ale stick with batemens XXXB or better still for a paler bitter go with Batemans Victory Ale. Big busty and blonde

Almost forgot...6 or 7 days ferment before racking ( the SO4 will take no time at all in this weather). Mature in the barrel for ONLY 4 to 7 days before getting stuck in. Such recipes will keep very well but again in this weather will drink better young.

HighHops

Re: No flavour?

Post by HighHops » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:44 am

Very concisely put bjack: Are your hops fresh?

Good point after the summary though; keep your mash temp higher and drink less out of smaller glasses.

I agree with all of it apart from the last bit. And the bit before that. :beer:

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Jolum
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Re: No flavour?

Post by Jolum » Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:41 pm

Sorry if anyone's mentioned any of this - I may have missed something

Everything that's been mentioned sounds good and will help. Personally the one thing that changed everything for me was when I finally started controlling my fermentation temperature accurately. Before I built my temperature controlled fridge for fermentation\conditioning, the beers I made were OK, if the weather held, and the temperatures didn't fluctuate too much, some were even good but now I have consistently excellent beers.

Also, (this has definitely been mentioned) branching out yeast-wise has made the world of difference. I too was stuck in S04 limbo. I still think it's a good all-round yeast but I found that using the same yeast for all my ales meant that, although they had slightly different flavours due to the differing grain bills, they had the same yeast 'profile' (if you know what I mean). Get yourself some new yeasts and experiment, you'll never look back.

Stick with it, try some of the things that have been mentioned in the replies and eventually something will click and you'll love the results :D
"Everybody has to believe in something, I believe I'll have another drink." - W.C. Fields

HighHops

Re: No flavour?

Post by HighHops » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:21 am

Jolum wrote: Personally the one thing that changed everything for me was when I finally started controlling my fermentation temperature accurately.
I agree with Jolum, when a yeast is stressed at the top end of it's temperature range it produces more fruity esters. Safale is reliable and I always have a few in the fridge, but it is fairly neutral tasting. My last couple of brews I have used Shepherd's neame and fullers cultured from the bottled beer. The smells coming out of the fv are mouth watering.
Blackjack wrote:Mature in the barrel for ONLY 4 to 7 days before getting stuck in. Such recipes will keep very well but again in this weather will drink better young.
Bj made another good point - Get stuck in early - start sampling to see how your beer changes over time.

A big difference for me was when I started treating my water with CRS (carbonate reduction solution). I didn't think that we had hard water but when I tested it, it was 200ml/L CaCO3 which is quite alkaline and was giving my pale ales an astringent taste, which made them all seem similar.

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