I've got a Fermentation Fridge!!!

[andybiochem]

Hi!

The other weekend SWMBO mentioned she might be ok with me getting a fridge to ferment beer in. She'd barely finished the sentence and I was out the door to Comet. Result: nice new fridge with a TC-10 thermostat, with a BrewBelt for heat.

I brewed an ale the next day, which I've just put into secondary 10 days later. I set it to 20 deg c for the primary ferment (which it maintained beautifully ), and am going to set it at 10 deg c for another week before bottling.

Now that I have a temperature controller I'm a bit overwhelmed at what I can do with it. In fact, I've been re-reading all my brew books for temperature-related topics that I skipped over previously. Still, I'm at a loss on how to get the best out of the fridge now.

Some questions I've been looking for answers for:
- is there any benefit in changing the temp during the primary ferment (e.g. go from 18 to 20 then to 15 deg c)
- what temp should I do the secondary at
- is crash-cooling any use for ales (it being a lager technique)
- I've read fining works best at low temps (with gelatine, isinglass etc), is this true?
- is it worth cooling the beer to get a cold break before bottling it / fining it

As you can tell, I can't see the wood for the trees at the moment, so what does everyone else do with their ferment-fridge? Any tips on getting the best out of it?

Thanks in advance!
Andy

[EoinMag]

Some questions I've been looking for answers for:
- is there any benefit in changing the temp during the primary ferment (e.g. go from 18 to 20 then to 15 deg c)
- what temp should I do the secondary at
- is crash-cooling any use for ales (it being a lager technique)
- I've read fining works best at low temps (with gelatine, isinglass etc), is this true?
- is it worth cooling the beer to get a cold break before bottling it / fining it

From what I understand:
-Some beers will benefit from a stepped temperature increase, and I think a Belgian Saison would be one such, don't quote me on that one, but the principal of slowly ramping up temps to get esters is sound. Normally the point of the fridge is to keep a constant controlled temperature, so you want to have a reason for doing this in the first place and know why specifically for the beer or yeast type.
-Secondary, I don't use it, I'd have thought that you want to drop to a little below what you were fermenting at.
-If you crash cool an ale, then you will also have to add more yeast back with the primer as you will have dropped the lot out and won't have any left for priming. The Germans call it addition of "speise".
-Not sure about fining at low temps, it probably is the case as gelatin is more ehh gelatinous and less liquid at low temps.
-Isn't this what you are already doing with crash cooling? You won't get a cold break at this point, but you can drop out any proteins still in solution from the original cold break.

[Wolfy]

- Yeast will generally produce less esters and other related off-flavours at lower temperatures, but they are more active at higher temps. Controlling the temp you can use this to advantage, by starting a fermentation off cooler and then letting it warm slightly you may be able to discourage the yeast from throwing off flavours at the start of the ferment and clean up after themselves at the end of the ferment. Something you can try with a Weizen yeast if you are looking for a nice clean ferment, warming a lager yeast just as it finishes up primary fermentation for a 'diacetyl rest' can also help reduce off flavours, but pitching them cold and allowing them to warm slightly can also be used.

- Secondary (same as fermentation temp), lagering (colder is better but takes longer) or cold conditioning (as cold as you can go, within reason).

- Crash cooling encourages the yeast to go dormant and settle out, as far as I'm aware many micro breweries (and home brewers) use this technique (often in conjunction with fininings) to produce bright beer without filtering (hence the name/use of a 'bright tank' to condition the beer before its packaged). So 'crash cooling' or 'cold conditioning' it's probably more useful for Ales since Lager's will have a long cold larger process for the yeast to settle.

- What finings are you using and what is the desired effect? Cold temps (and some finings) can help yeast settle, and very cold temps (and some finings) can cause the proteins that cause chill haze to settle so they can be removed before keg/bottling (which is probably what you mean by 'cold break'?). So most people will combine fininings with cold temps since they help the process along.

- If chill haze is a problem, you might be able to reduce it by cooling the beer to almost freezing (and using finings) before you package the beer (without the finings the proteins will just re-dissolve as the beer warms, so cold alone will not fix the problem).

[andybiochem]

thanks for the replies, very helpful.

re my last point:
- is it worth cooling the beer to get a cold break before bottling it / fining it

I think what I really meant is 'chill haze' rather than 'cold break'. I.e. if i chill the beer for long enough, will the chill haze drop out? or do I need to do this before fining?

Interesting point about adding more yeast. Hadn't thought about that. Not had a problem yet with carbonation (other than over-carbonation), even when fining with gelatine...cooling as well might just break the camels back . I'll keep an eye on it.

ta!

[Bobba]

I've only used my fridge on 4 AG brews so far, but I've been crashing it for 24 hours to 6C (that's as low as my fridge will go without it totally freaking out) at the end of fermentation to drop the yeast and proteins out. I haven't had any trouble with the yeast carbonating bottles/casks after this. I think you'd have to keep it low for a fair amount of time to completely remove the yeast and for it not to prime, which is prob the case for lagers, but for the ales it only needs a short time at the low temp. So for a short time at low temps, a speise prob is not needed.
I've found it's really helped with clarity, and I've found my beers are drinkable easily even after 1 week, where as I'd have to wait a good 2-3 weeks before. I've found the flavour of the beer seems much more stable. PReviously I'd find that the beer tasted pretty rubbish after it was kegged or bottled, then would improve over a month. Now I'm finding it tastes great almost straight away. Also, the yeast in the bottom of bottles is significantly reduced now also, even with some conditioning time in a keg before bottling.

[Normski]

I only use my FV Fridge to keep it at a constat temperture and im well pleased with the results. It has allowed me to brew all though the summer (yeah I know its been wet and cold) without having to check the room temperature or move the FV somewhere more suitable. It's also great for keeping unused FV's in when not brewing. My fridge is a big un. fits two Fv's in. i have an ATC 800+ works a treat. Set it and forget it.

[andybiochem]

Fast replies! I can't keep up!

Controlling the temp you can use this to advantage, by starting a fermentation off cooler and then letting it warm slightly you may be able to discourage the yeast from throwing off flavours at the start of the ferment and clean up after themselves at the end of the ferment.

Interesting. I would have thought starting the ferment hot then cool down would produce less off-flavours. The way you describe it makes more sense though. I'll try that with my next brew. What range of temperature would you go through? I'll be using WLP001 stolen from a bottle of Sierra Nevada.

I'm thinking: start at 18°C for 2 days, move to 20°C for 3 days, then 23°C for 2 days. Sound ok for the primary?

Then I'll drop it down to 10°C over night (is this low enough for chill-haze?), fine with gelatine the next day and hold it at 10°C for another week. Then bottle.

I've found the flavour of the beer seems much more stable. Previously I'd find that the beer tasted pretty rubbish after it was kegged or bottled, then would improve over a month. Now I'm finding it tastes great almost straight away.

I've heard people say that before, very reassuring!

What finings are you using and what is the desired effect?

I've been using gelatine so far, but also have some dried isinglass to hand which I might try sometime soon. Ideally, I'd like to fine out any remaining visible yeast/trub (including bits of hop from dry hopping), and also prevent chill haze. It's probably asking too much I guess. I really don't mind a cloudy pint, but I like to give my ales away to friends, and, well you know what people are like! I've not managed a clear pale ale yet (i.e. pale malt only), and I think the problem is a mix of flocculant yeast and chill haze.

Thanks again!

[Wolfy]

Interesting point about adding more yeast. Hadn't thought about that. Not had a problem yet with carbonation (other than over-carbonation), even when fining with gelatine...cooling as well might just break the camels back . I'll keep an eye on it.

If you can lager beer for 4+ weeks at virtually 0degC and still have enough yeast to bottle carbonate, I don't think you'll have to add more yeast when cold-crashing an Ale for a few days, I never have (even when using Wy1969 which is an amazingly flocculant yeast.)

Interesting. I would have thought starting the ferment hot then cool down would produce less off-flavours. The way you describe it makes more sense though. I'll try that with my next brew. What range of temperature would you go through? I'll be using WLP001 stolen from a bottle of Sierra Nevada.

Yeast is more active at warmer temps, it will reproduce more and more readily, and much of the yeast character/flavour comes from the reproduction processes. Hence warmer temps means more yeast character/flavour - sometimes that is what you want, others its not - something you'll notice in summer when temp control is harder, people complaining about all the 'off' yeast flavours in their warm-fermented beer.

However, I'm not sure it's something I'd bother with with a clean neutral yeast like WLP001, or even with most standard ale production where you want the yeast character in your beer.
The only times I've adjusted the temps during fermentation were for specialty yeasts/beers like a Kölsch pseudo-lager, or Weizen when trying to keep control of what is often a very fruity yeast.

Then I'll drop it down to 10°C over night (is this low enough for chill-haze?), fine with gelatine the next day and hold it at 10°C for another week. Then bottle.

10degC will not do anything to help with chill haze, you need it at about (or even below) 0degC, again gelatin will not help with chill haze you need other products for that.
10degC and gelatin will help settle yeast and reduce any haze in the beer from that, which is probably all you need, especially if you don't serve your ale super-cold.

[EoinMag]

If you can lager beer for 4+ weeks at virtually 0degC and still have enough yeast to bottle carbonate, I don't think you'll have to add more yeast when cold-crashing an Ale for a few days, I never have (even when using Wy1969 which is an amazingly flocculant yeast.

Do you lager for that long and still get carbonation without adding more yeast (speise), because lager is the one case where as far as I'm aware you always have to add yeast when botling for conditioning, if you have a different experience with this then it'd be interesting to know.
Surely if carbonation did happen it would be very slow.