Advice on yeast, WLP005.

[gnutz2]

I'm after a little guideance please, in at the deep end really and i'm struggling a bit.

I started my second all grain brew a week ago using WLP005 in 25 litres of 1045 gravity beer.

Being nieve and never using luquid yeast before, i never made a starter.

Basically there was a big lag time of 36 hours before the start of fermentation and its been really steady going, its at 1018 now, 7 days after pitching.

Basically i was going to crop the yeast from this brew and use in in the future, but bearing in mind the slow start and really slow (from what i'm used to with dried yeasts) fermentation, would it be wise to crop this yeast.

If a yeast only performs 60% attenuation, does this mean it will perform the same in subsequent brews evin if i pitch a lot more of it?

I see Kev had a problem with the same yeast

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=40109&p=423910&hil ... ch#p423910

Many thanks Baz

[mark4newman]

Hi

I always make a 2 pint stater (I had problems with the time LY took to start) , and set it up two days before the brew.

I also add Servomyces Yeast Nutrient to the boil.

I then pitch the yeast at about 27C and set the temp to 23C. (Until it is going)

The yeast will then get going within a couple of hours.

If you Crop from it, and do the above and it will start very fast (I've used WLP005 two brews ago)

(PS the older the yeast the longer it will take to get going)

[mark4newman]

If a yeast only performs 60% attenuation, does this mean it will perform the same in subsequent brews evin if i pitch a lot more of it?

Ohh sorry missed this. Yes the yeast attains the same attenuation, no matter how much yeast you add. If you add more it just gets there faster.

[gnutz2]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'll leave this batch longer and see what the FG is, if it's too high i wont bother cropping it.

Cheers Baz.

[Wolfy]

I started my second all grain brew a week ago using WLP005 in 25 litres of 1045 gravity beer.
Being nieve and never using luquid yeast before, i never made a starter.
Basically there was a big lag time of 36 hours before the start of fermentation and its been really steady going, its at 1018 now, 7 days after pitching.
Basically i was going to crop the yeast from this brew and use in in the future, but bearing in mind the slow start and really slow (from what i'm used to with dried yeasts) fermentation, would it be wise to crop this yeast.

A new yeast pack is designed to be pitched directly into a 5 (US) gallon batch of beer (18.93l), so you've under-pitched a bit nothing to stress too much about.
The additional lag time is simply because the yeast were reproducing more than you are used to due to being under-pitched (the amount of under-pitching is also dependent on how fresh your yeast was).
As long as you were pedantic about your sanitation and are certain there is no infection (which could be an unwanted consequence of the longer lag period), there is no real reason to think the yeast is bad or not suitable to harvest - after all it was not it's fault it was under-pitched and had to take some extra baby-making time before it started fermenting your beer.

If, when you repitch the yeast, you use a more appropriate quantity, you may find it performs a little better.
Having said that, Ringwood is a top-cropping yeast, so the best time to harvest it would have been from the top of your FV when the fermentation was most active, rather than a week later when fermentation should be mostly finished and the yeast settling out.

[gnutz2]

Thanks Wolfy, as fermentation is almost over i'll crop it from the bottom.

I understand top cropping yeilds better yeast cells, as your only taking the healthy working cells as apposed to all the rubbish from the bottom.

Baz.

[Kev888]

Hi, interesting - thanks for posting this. Maybe I shouldn't bin my own attempt either - though I'd want to test it in a good sized starter before trusting a full brew with it.

To be frank I have no idea why mine didn't work, as in one gallon it wasn't theoretically under-pitched but I can only assume the vial had far less viable yeast in it than I'd expected. I'd bought two vials of it and the second one seems to be very slow as well, though its too early to tell if it'll attenuate properly this time or not. There's no suggestion of an infection, the temperature is right, the wort was well airated before pitching, the yeast was gradually warmed from the fridge temperature before hand, and its in date. I'm hardly a novice at fermenting/brewing and whilst I'm quite new to liquid yeast there doesn't really seem to be anything else about it that I could have got wrong. Most odd.

Cheers,
kev

[gnutz2]

Just checked it again tonight and its 1016, slowly its getting there with no signs of infection just a fruity immature beer taste.

Also orderd some servomyces as Mark suggested, i'll pop a tablet in the boil just to give me peace of mind.

[gunner]

As wolfy has stated,you have underpitched your yeast,which has made the yeast work really hard and put it under extra stress ,which has repercussions on flavour, viability and vitality of the yeast as well as the problems you have encounted with long lag times and long fermentations and possible infections.

Each vial has around 100 billion cells,and you really need around 200 million cells to get to a pitchable rate for 20L.

If you were to pitch the vial into a 2L starter around the 20c mark,and either add constant oxygen(stir plate) or intermittent shaking,within 48 hours you should have a pitchable rate of cells,which you can then pitch into your brew or split into a couple of starters,or even step up again.

Once the starter has finnished,let it set for 8-12 hours to let the cells recharge their glycogen levels,refrigerate then decant most of the starter liquid,before pitching or splitting.

Adding nutrients to the starter and boil is a good idea,zinc being a missing ingredient in wort that is essential to yeast vitality.

Graham

[gnutz2]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

It eventually fermented out to 1013 in about 10 days, so thats about 70% attenuation so well within the 68% to 74% suggested.

If the yeast was stressed it hasnt shown in the beer, the recipe i tried was the styrian stunner and its been in the barrel about 6 days now and it tastes great, it tastes allmost exactly like timothy taylor landlord, its the styrians that do it.

Baz

[Wolfy]

To be frank I have no idea why mine didn't work, as in one gallon it wasn't theoretically under-pitched but I can only assume the vial had far less viable yeast in it than I'd expected.

I suspect that being so far from the manufacturer (as we are also here in Australia) sometimes how the yeast is treated before you get it is an unknown and variable factor. If it was not kept cool, was delayed in transit, shipped warm or any number of factors there may be a question mark over it's viability.

If the yeast was stressed it hasnt shown in the beer, the recipe i tried was the styrian stunner and its been in the barrel about 6 days now and it tastes great

Sounds good, that's what it's all about ... good beer!

[Kev888]

I suspect that being so far from the manufacturer (as we are also here in Australia) sometimes how the yeast is treated before you get it is an unknown and variable factor. If it was not kept cool, was delayed in transit, shipped warm or any number of factors there may be a question mark over it's viability.

Ah, I did wonder about that - thanks! In the thread I originally posted on it (here) I described how I went on to pich a second vial (bought at the same time) but this time I did a side-by-side test with some S-04, and the wlp005 struggled again whilst the s-04 didn't at all. So its definately a possibility that the yeast wasn't in peak condition. However since the post above I also had suggestions that wlp005 needs frequent rousing and more attention paid to airation than the dried yeasts I'm familiar with, so my technique probably didn't help matters either.

Cheers
Kev