Tannin problem I cannot get rid of! help!

[coatesg]

HSA is a myth as far as I can tell - or at least not nearly as much of a worry as many people seem to think. I run straight from my MT into my boiler with no hose on the tap and I certainly don't suffer from any of the problems alleged to be caused by HSA.

I certainly wouldn't want garden hose anywhere in a brewing rig (except for cleaning), especially anywhere hot.

Ditto on both counts. (Though I do use the garden hose to carry water to and from the IC - but that's Ok since the water doesn't touch the wort.)

[gregorach]

Yeah, OK... Except cleaning and coolant hoses.

[subfaction]

Just thinking, how do you connect your filters, any non stainless in there?

[Eric]

Maybe worth trying though and using some food grade tubing instead.

A quick fix you might think about is a layer of kitchen foil on top of the mash, with a couple of dozen small piercings, so that the water might drop directly from the HLT tap onto the foil before finding ways into the grain.

[danbrew]

I have only skim read this thread so sorry to go off track but what ingredients/ recipes are you using?

I had a big problem with tannins/ astringency as you describe but when I changed over from a certain batch of crystal malt the problem stopped and I haven't had the problem since and my brewing process involves a burco, a mash bag, a hop sock and untreated water and no crash cooling after the boil (i.e. basic).

It could also just be a taste/ flavour thing in the ales you have made and you have yet to find one you like? Especially if people have tried your beers and they don't seem to pick up problems with them?

+1 on getting rid of the garden hose regardless of whether it's causing this specific problem or not...

[norstar]

Really grateful for all the replies - a couple of interesting recent ones. Eric and garden hose naysayers - I've actually taken your advice in my brew tonight to beat the hosepipe ban!

I'm nothing if not consistent. The brew tonight hit the same pH, the same OG, the same FG and the same volumes as the one I did a week or so ago. But I have omitted the use of any garden hose or plastics at all in this one - I used Erics suggestion of foil with holes to sparge and achieved the same efficiency and I ran off into the boiler without using a hose as well. I used Asda smart price water with a wee bit of Calcium Chloride to balance off the sulphate, but otherwise "as is" and the pH was fine. The last runnings were still below 5.5 as far as I could see and the gravity never went near 1.010.

I actually tried a sample off the FV tonight of last week's brew where I repeated a January brew but minus Gypsum additions, only used CRS and omitted the garden hose for sparging (but admittedly used a bit to fill the boiler from the mash tun. It tastes great - no bitterness/astringency at all and it's hoppy like none of my previous brews have been.

So either something develops after that when I bottle, or that brew has removed the problem, which must be either the addition of Gypsum, the use of the hose, or that I used to run off the wort from the mash tun with sparging and then transfer it to the boiler. The last brew and tonights saw me run it off direct to the boiler and switch on.

I will be interested to see how the two brews pan out in taste as they are essentially identical in stats, but done with totally different water and no hosepipe at all. I will report back.

Just hope I don't mess up the conditioning & bottling!

[Eric]

Really grateful for all the replies -
I'm nothing if not consistent.
I will be interested to see how the two brews pan out in taste as they are essentially identical in stats, but done with totally different water and no hosepipe at all. I will report back.

Just hope I don't mess up the conditioning & bottling!

You're a trier and deserve to conquer this. If it does goes pear shaped then Dunc's postulated infection is odds on.
Anyone fancy opening a book? 5 to 4 on a success, evens a failure?

[norstar]

Ok then, so both batches have been bottled and have carbonated nicely. So I've tried them both. To remind you, batch 1 & 2 were identical recipes with the only difference being the water used. Batch 1 was tap water, treated with campden tabs, CRS and nothing else. Batch 2 was Asda smart price water treated with a smidge of Calcium Chloride.

Neither batch has the astringent taste problem I had before, and after only a week or two in the bottles, are perfectly drinkable, whereas the old batches needed six months to even begin to be acceptable. The Asda water batch is possibly slightly smoother, but little difference overall. So it must have been either the use of a hosepipe to carry hot liquor, the use of Amber malt, or possibly over sparging, though I think that's unlikely.

Only problem is that both batches are very dry and fairly bitter with no residual sweetness/fruityness at all, which I put down to the Nottingham yeast attentuating so much, and the use of target hops and first gold. I was hoping for more hop flavour as I steeped both batches with 25g of first gold for 30 mins or so but that's another topic which I will post separately. Thanks for the replies to this thread, which were very encouraging. I hope I can move on from here!

[eclipse]

Possibly you are sparging too much? I have heard if you do you can get tannins

[Eric]

Neither batch has the astringent taste problem I had before, So it must have been..................

Only problem is that both batches are very dry and fairly bitter with no residual sweetness/fruityness at all, which I put down to the Nottingham yeast

Thanks for the replies to this thread, which were very encouraging. I hope I can move on from here!

Wonderful, pleased to read this.
Don't blame the yeast yet and be careful with judgements if you do change. If it really is dry and not just over bitterly, suspect too low a mash temperature. This can be due to an inaccurate thermometer or just incorrect insertion. Make sure the mash is well mixed, well insulated and not left too long before the boiler denatures the enzymes.
Keep your recipes simple and you'll have it cracked in no-time.