American biscuit flavour/aroma?

[brodington]

I do love American ipa's but when trying to brew similar i am missing that biscuit flavour.

to me it tastes like a malt based flavour.
Am i right?
How can i recreate thi using UK malts?
Does anyone else know what I'm talking about?

[jimp2003]

A lot of american homebrew recipes of this style that I have seen include Victory malt which I have substituted with Biscuit Malt (the clue is in the name ) and been pleased with the results.

[brodington]

I'm not sure biscuit malt (or victory) is what I'm tasting.

Take goose island ipa as an example. Has the flavour I'm looking to identify but their website and all the clones I can see say 100% pale malt.

Most of the bottled Americans seem to have it but I'm not getting it from English aipa's. My local had stones anniversary ale on the other day and that was stacked with it.

Could it be the American 2 row that I'm tasting?

[jimp2003]

I doubt that american two row is able to give any flavours that you couldn't get from UK pale malt. How long do you tend to boil your brews for? Could it be that if you do a good vigorous boil for 90 mins you might get a different flavour profile from a straight 100% pale malt beer?

I am intrigued though and will buy a bottle of the Goose Island IPA to see if I can appreciate what you mean..

[Matt12398]

I also like the biscuity flavour you get in some beers such as Bath Ales Wild Hare and thought I'd get that with biscuit malt. I can really taste the biscuit malt in the brew but its not the flavour I was looking for. I wonder if it could be a combination of other grains with the biscuit malt that would create it but I'm not experienced enough with the different types of grain to know so I'm interested to see the responses,

[jimp2003]

The trouble with using descriptions like "biscuity" is that we all taste things differently and some are more sensitive to certain flavours..

[schlafsack]

I think i know the flavour you are describing, and I've been chasing it for a while. A malt flavour, but not beery malt, more an ovaltine sweet malt. I find it very prevelent in Odell beers, particularly St.Lupulin.

I initially thought it was the malt type, but then suspected a hop or hop combination. However, I'm begining to think that it might not be an ingredient at all but rather a change in flavour due to the transportation - I've also tasted it in beer from Aus/NZ. There was an episode of one of the Brewing Network radio shows where JZ mentioned he once talked to a group of NZ beer fans who were discussing a particular taste that all American beers had. He tasted the beer they were drinking and claimed that it was slight oxidisation that was giving that flavour. I've not been to the US, but would like to taste a fresh glass of St.Lupulin to see if the same flavour is there.

[bob3000]

I think i know the flavour you are describing, and I've been chasing it for a while. A malt flavour, but not beery malt, more an ovaltine sweet malt. I find it very prevelent in Odell beers, particularly St.Lupulin.

I initially thought it was the malt type, but then suspected a hop or hop combination. However, I'm begining to think that it might not be an ingredient at all but rather a change in flavour due to the transportation - I've also tasted it in beer from Aus/NZ. There was an episode of one of the Brewing Network radio shows where JZ mentioned he once talked to a group of NZ beer fans who were discussing a particular taste that all American beers had. He tasted the beer they were drinking and claimed that it was slight oxidisation that was giving that flavour. I've not been to the US, but would like to taste a fresh glass of St.Lupulin to see if the same flavour is there.

+ 1

[Jymbo]

I'm not sure if it's the exact flavour you're looking for but I find that amber malt gives a nice biscuity flavour to pale ales and bitters.

[weiht]

Funny u said it, but I thought UK pale malt are supposedly more biscuity and malty than US ones? Does that brewery use US or UK pale malts? There is a good number of them that use uk ones actually. It may cost more for them, but some claim better efficiency due to bigger kernels, so it balances the cost out somewhat.

[brodington]

It's good to hear some other people can taste this too...

I really don't think it's a speciality grain or a specific hop as so many of these beers have been cloned/say on their website what's in em...

Also I cannot detect this on any of the American inspired UK breweries (magic rock/brew Dog etc)

[6470zzy]

Perhaps what you are describing as "biscuit" could be attributed to the flavour and aroma from the use of 6 row malt in the US.
6 row will definitely contribute much more of a "grain" sort of flavour and aroma as opposed to a beer that is brewed with 100% 2 row barley.

Cheers

[bob3000]

Seriously, it is age and oxidation. Try leaving your beer for 6 months then leave it on the window sill for a couple of weeks. ( i'm only half joking) Americans make exactly the same sort of comments about English beers.

[6470zzy]

Seriously, it is age and oxidation.

I respectfully disagree. Age and oxidation do not render a biscuit flavour/aroma...at least in my opinion. But that is only my opinion.

Cheers

[bob3000]

Seriously, it is age and oxidation.

I respectfully disagree. Age and oxidation do not render a biscuit flavour/aroma...at least in my opinion. But that is only my opinion.

Cheers

I guess I am relying on comments by jamil on his podcast and pretty much regurgitating that. But it does make sense, the one thing these beers have in common is they are from overseas.
I think it is subtle. If you think about it as you age your beers the hop character goes down and all the flavours seem to mellow and come together and the malt character does change and come to the fore.
I doubt it is a difference in the ingredients, I guess one way to find out would be to brew a clone of an american beer where you can replicate the ingredients exactly and compare the two.