Melon Flavour in Pilsner Lager

[fatbelly]

Hi I brewed my 1st AG Pilsner Lager using Pilsner Malt, Acid Malt & Saaz hops. My Yeast was Saflager W34/70 and it was fermented at around 13c, then put into a cold garage to Lager for around 6 weeks. It is now in my Cornie and a lovely Lager. When I 1st tried it there was a Melon taste to the Beer which whilst its still there has dissipated somewhat. I didn't like the Melon favour and want to avoid it next time I brew. What do I need to do different to avoid this taste.

Thanks

[seymour]

Of course, flavour perception is a very personal, non-scientific thing, but I believe something like melon flavours could come from:

1. your yeast pitch wasn't big enough, so it had to struggle to repopulate before getting on with fermentation, thus producing more esters than under ideal conditions
2. a lager fermentation at the warm end of the spectrum, wherein more fruity esters would be produced
3. older, oxidized malt can produce a sorta mushy, cardboardy flavour some might describe as melon
4. older, oxidized hops can produce cheesy and odd, mushy fruit flavours as well.

If you pitch a bigger yeast population (2 packets is an easy way), ferment a bit cooler, make sure to use fresher, and freshly cracked grain, and fresher hops, I predict the melon flavour will not be there next time.

That said, there are many unusual, smelly fermentation esters and phenols early on (such as sulfur...yuck!), which are eliminated via lagering. This could be the whole explanation: you simply never observed the earlier stages of store-bought finished lagers before. If you don't like it, and it's gone now, it's hopeful you could repeat your same process and with proper conditioning, it will always go away.

[fatbelly]

Thanks for the comprehensive and knowledgeable answer Seymour
Just what I needed

[Hogarth]

I had a melon-tasting ale recently. Here's a thread about it. The general view was that it probably was an ester, possibly one like ethyl acetate which in stronger concentrations gives a nail-varnish, pear-drop aroma, but in smaller amounts could well be described as melony.

[dmuz]

Fatbelly, melon flavour aside, as someone fairly new to AG and who likes the occasional lager, may you provide the recipe and some tips to reproducing this brew.....

[fatbelly]

Fatbelly, melon flavour aside, as someone fairly new to AG and who likes the occasional lager, may you provide the recipe and some tips to reproducing this brew.....

Yes of course happy to help.
The Lager has now been conditioning for about 8 weeks and is fantastic. Friends have came around & both said they would be more than happy to buy it in a Pub . In fact they said it was better than any Pub Lager that they have tried.

Brewed to 21 litres.
5kg Premium Pilsner Malt from the Malt Miller http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.ph ... ductId=110
150 Acid Malt http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.ph ... ductId=112

100g Saaz Hops, I didn't write down how I used them but from memory 20g at 70mins 40 at 45 mins & 40g at 10 mins.

The yeast ( I am now on AG8 and learning how crucial the yeast is) was Saflager W34/70 http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.ph ... oductId=72

Mashed at 65c for 90 mins. Boiled for 90 mins with a Protafloc Tablet thrown in at 15 mins to go. Crash cooled to 21c, yeast pitched then into a cool room which was the perfect 13c. Don't ferment at any higher than this as the yeast needs to do its work between 12c & 14c. Ferment for 14 days then into my cold garage to Lager which was around 3c for 6 weeks & then into the Cornie.

The cool temp for fermentation and the cold temp for Lagering is very very important.

When you make it don't try it until it has been lagering for at least 6 weeks and preferably 8 weeks. Mine is now at 8 weeks and like I said is fantastic, but at 6 weeks it was only nice.

Give it a go but make sure you can get your cool & cold Temps

[dmuz]

Cheers fatbelly. Did you use just one pack of saflager and did you make a starter? I've read that the cooler temps require more yeasties.

Temperature control should be fine. I've got a fridge attached to an ATC800. Probably only goes down to 6 deg for lagering but include a couple of icepacks in there and i reckon i can shave a few more degrees off of that.

[fatbelly]

Just pitched the one packet of Yeast and I don't know how to make a starter
Whatever I brew I just chuck the Yeast on top of the Beer close the lid and let it do its work.

[dmuz]

Haha. Ok cool. Maybe worth thinking about doing a starter as seymour has indicated in his post for that melon issue. Really helps for a quicker ferment helping with less off tastes (according to this video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEQBPeHfXD0

Anyway, cheers for all your help.

[fatbelly]

Haha. Ok cool. Maybe worth thinking about doing a starter as seymour has indicated in his post for that melon issue. Really helps for a quicker ferment helping with less off tastes (according to this video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEQBPeHfXD0

Anyway, cheers for all your help.

After viewing that Video I will try a starter for my next Brew. Perhaps if I had done so for my Pilsner Lager I wouldn't have had Melon favour at the start (but it has gone away now)

[Pinto]

Starters from dried yeast have been discussed recently and I think the general consensus seemed to be that you actually made the yeast weaker by doing so - so I'd stick with a simple rehydrate in boiled, cooled water and pitch two packs if you're worred about low rates