Auxiliary finings on their own

[greenxpaddy]

I read a Q on another homebrew forum about whether vegetarians can use auxiliary finings without the later addition of isinglass.

My own test of this seems to suggest

- the heavy negative charge particles inc proteins do fall out of suspension without isinglass BUT

- any remaining negative charged particles in solution produce an uncomfortable prickle on the tongue.

So, no, I would not recommend this.

[WishboneBrewery]

But didn't you ask whether Vegetarians could use Auxiliary Finings?
The answer would be YES.
Shouldn't your 'Test' of this been to examine the ingredients of 'Auxiliary Finings' for anything animal based?

There are Micro's using Keykegs etc where the beer has been dosed with Auxiliary (Finings Adjunct/Silicated finings) and settled and carb'd before filling, so unfiltered, Un-Isinglass, very Pro-Vegetarian/Vegan. (Finings Adjunct removes Protein, Isinglass removes Yeast).

The beers we pellet dry hop at work are Dry Hopped in FV along with an addition of Finings adjunct, then chilled to 8c before transfer to Conditioning Tank, they rack from CT with just a light haze which I'd happily drink, nothing prickly about it.

If you can detect "Negativity Charged Particles" on your tongue you might be over-thinking it a bit!

[ArmChair]

please ignore

[greenxpaddy]

Wooah , i didnt realise the moderators here were a bunch of condescending know it alls ! I don't chill so I can say with confidence if you are at cellar temps that you need isinglass to bind with the negative mass of aux finings and protein.

[greenxpaddy]

I wonder if you know how auxiliary finings actually work at molecular level? They are so negatively charged they swap the positive charge of the protein. If you wait long enough - or chill the beer to aid the process- the particles which have bonded with protein will largely fall out of solution. Regardless there will be an excess of the silicate in solution. Just how much would depend on your dose I suppose. This is removed when isinglass is added.

The prickliness I have witnessed is in keeping with an overly mineral flavour which one might sometimes get from excessive water treatment. This is logically the silicates as I can elk ate the latter.

[WishboneBrewery]

I apologise for my reply.
Maybe Question/Statement could have been put better, my response was based on the confusion of 'Vegetarians' if that wasn't said I would never have replied.

*I've a fair idea how they work.

*Barney said some of my homebrew was Mineraly/Prickly... same thing maybe?

[greenxpaddy]

Apology taken.

The test will be when I sample it now I have added isinglass. If the prickliness has disappeared it was definitely down to aux fining.

If it is the case I am not sure even with chilling and perfect dosing whether you could remove all the aux fining/protein bindings by gravity alone. Speaking with Murphys chemist the aux finings ( i bought the dry form to mix as i need for longer shelf life) when first mixed from bags A and B create a reaction forming polymer chains, which would be of varying lengths. It would be logical to envisage some of those chains would be smaller with less negative charge and consequently stay in solution. By using isinglass even the smaller chains are still removed by the strong adhesion to the isinglass.

It is the combined action of the two which is so effective, creating large particles which fall out of suspension quickly and easily.

I'll let you know.

[greenxpaddy]

The cloudy first beer was sharp and prickly. Once it came clear the flavour was soft and normal. Conclusive to me.