Batch sparging advice

[verno]

I can't help thinking that my efficiencies are low and think it might be my batch sparging technique so I was hoping for some feedback. Basically my last brew should have had an OG of 1.054 according to the calculators but had 1.044 although was maybe 25l instead of 23l but I don't think this should create that difference?

So technique was

1. add 14l to mash at 78 degrees which took it to 68. Calc actually said 13.7 but I figure it doesn't need to be that precise, is that right?

2. Top up with 8l at 78 degrees after 60 mins and leave for 10 mins?

3. Re circulate about 6l in 2l batches and then run off

4. Add 15l at 80 degrees and leave for 10 mins.

Questions
Is my time allowance enough? Should I mash for 90 mins and leave the spare for longer than 10? My mash tun only loses 1-2 degrees.
What does the top up do as one thing I have read says just do 14l and then spare with 23l?
Are my temperatures too high, I was making fullers London porter?

I might try an overnight mash next and I guess that will give me some answers on timing.

Thanks in advance
Verno

[boingy]

Those extra two litres are not helping. Collecting 25 litres instead of 23 will knock a few gravity points off and remember that the SG measured between mash and boil will be lower because you will be driving water off during the boil.

Questions:

1. How and at what stage are you measuring the gravity? The OG listed in a recipe refers to the measurement after the wort is boiled and cooled and also requires you end up with the exact target volume in the fermenter.

2. Are you stirring well after adding each batch of water?

3. Have you calculated your efficiency? The recipe with a 1.054 target will have been based on a particular efficiency.

[vacant]

check your scales

[gnutz2]

Sparge water at 78-80c wont bring the grain bed up to 76-77c (on my setup anyway), which is where you ideally want it.

Try hotter sparging water, my setup usually requires the 1st sparge water at 95c but i drain the MT first and then sparge twice.

+ what others have said

[verno]

Those extra two litres are not helping. Collecting 25 litres instead of 23 will knock a few gravity points off and remember that the SG measured between mash and boil will be lower because you will be driving water off during the boil.

Questions:

1. How and at what stage are you measuring the gravity? The OG listed in a recipe refers to the measurement after the wort is boiled and cooled and also requires you end up with the exact target volume in the fermenter.

2. Are you stirring well after adding each batch of water?

3. Have you calculated your efficiency? The recipe with a 1.054 target will have been based on a particular efficiency.

1. I measured the OG when I ran it out of the boiler into the FV after chilling, although right at the end as the last litre or so was running off.
2. I didn't stir for the top up but did give it a good stir when adding the 15l sparge
3. The 1.054 is based off the brewpal app, it was 4.23kg Maris, 0.67kg Brown, 0.56kg Crystal and 0.14kg chocolate. I don't really know how to calculate efficiency and have never been that bothered by it as I am not trying to do this commercially, however when a beer comes out at 3.7% rather than 4.7% then I suspect its something I need to think about.

For the scales, I have electric ones that are very accurate.

[verno]

Having had a bit more time to think this through, maybe I am getting overly concerned.

My OG was 1044 and its down to 1014 which is 68% attenuation and WLP002 says 63 - 70% attenuation.

Then running efficiency calcs, I think I hit 68% and whilst that is a bit low, for batch sparging its probably tricky to get too much above 75%.

So overall I don't think its too bad but maybe just not the ABV I was hoping for.

[zgoda]

Then running efficiency calcs, I think I hit 68% and whilst that is a bit low, for batch sparging its probably tricky to get too much above 75%.

80% is standard for beers below 1.058 on my setup, but my losses to hops & trub are really low, like 1.5 ltr. And I am crushing malt on my own.

[boingy]

I think giving a decent stir on the first water addition and collecting a tad less from the sparge will see you close to your target. I work on a 75% efficiency for batch sparging. As you say, the actual number is not that important as long as it is fairly consistent. A consistent but slightly low efficiency means you can adjust the recipe to include more grain to hit the desired target OG. You can also measure the pre-boil gravity and volume and if you are a bit low (or have too much wort) you have the option to boil a bit more off, either with a more vigorous boil or a longer one.

Or you can just be happy with whatever beer you make. Most of us have the luxury of not needing to brew exactly to recipe so it's fine to just roll with whatever result you get. It's still beer (unless you've REALLY screwed up... ).

[verno]

thanks for all the help, I think I will try an overnight mash next anyway to try to keep the missus a bit happier and see what efficiency I get there.

[Rick_UK]

Check your hydrometer is properly calibrated and you are taking the reading properly.

Also the crush of your grain can effect efficiency significantly - you may get better with your next bag.