Horrendous Efficiency

[Matt12398]

Cheers guys. You've helped in looking at what the potential efficiency losses have been caused by and ways to fix it.

[YeastWhisperer]

In my humble, one should ignore efficiency percentage calculations, as they are not grounded in reality. The upper bound for the maximum amount of extract that can be obtained per kilogram or pound of grain changes from harvest to harvest and malting to malting, which makes these calculations little more than approximations. The metric that really counts when it comes to mashing is one's average extraction rate in points per pound per gallon or points per kilogram per liter. That's all one needs to know to formulate or scale recipes.

points_per_pound_per_gallon = (O.G - 1.00) x 1000 x wort_volume_in_gallons / grist_weight_in_pounds

points_per_kilogram_per_liter = (O.G - 1.00) x 1000 x wort_volume_in_liters / grist_weight_in_kilograms

Let's use the data that the OP posted in this thread as an example.

(1.056 - 1.00) x 1000 x 21 / 6.63 ~= 177 points per kilogram per liter

What this measure means is that one liter of wort made with the extract from one kilogram of grist would have an S.G. of 1.177. Knowing this measure allows one to adjust a recipe for one's brew house. All we have to do is to rewrite the equation to solve for the variable grist_weight_in_kilograms.

grist_weight_in_kilograms = (O.G - 1.00) x 1000 x wort_volume_in_gallons / points_per_kilogram_per_liter

(1.056 - 1.00) x 1000 x 23 / 177 ~= 7.3 kilograms of grist

If the OP's average extraction rate remains relatively constant from batch to batch, he should be able to hit his target O.G. and volume by increasing the grist mass to 7.3 kilograms.

Now, all we need to do is to scale all of the ingredients by 7.3 / 6.63 = 1.10.

4.60 x 1.10 = 5.06kg Maris Otter (Crisp) (7.9 EBC) Grain 1 69.3 %
0.90 x 1.10 ~= 1kg Brown Malt (Crisp) (128.1 EBC) Grain 2 13.6 %
0.81 x 1.10 ~= 0.9kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (59.1 EBC) Grain 3 12.3 %
0.17 x 1.10 ~= 0.19kg Crystal Dark - 77L (Crisp) (147.8 EBC) Grain 4 2.6 %
0.15 x 1.10 ~= 0.17kg Black (Crisp) (1339.6 EBC) Grain 5 2.3 %

[Subsonic]

YeastWhisperer, I'm glad you do what I do. I do it with a spreadsheet the same way. I always remember my Houston friends saying, 'Grain is CHEAP!'. So even though I am malting my own and the extraction rate is lower, I just recalculate and up the grain bill. As you say, if everything remains constant thats fine. Its like shooting, if you keep hitting the same spot but off the bull thats fine, you are consistent. Just readjust the sights to hit the mark. Sub.

[Matt12398]

That's some really good info. Thanks YeastWhisperer.

You guys are right, malt is cheap and I don't mind adding a bit more. I'm trying to work out though if there's something I'm doing wrong that might be affecting efficiency.

Subsonic, is that a spreadsheet you created yourself?

[YeastWhisperer]

Matt12398:

I blame the overuse of brewing software for "dumbing down" the amateur brewing community. Twenty years ago, the average all-grain amateur brewer stated his/her extraction rate in points per pound per gallon or points per kilogram per liter when posting an all-grain recipe. Unlike percentages that are based on fictitious values in a look-up table, points per pound per gallon and points per kilogram per liter are absolute numbers that reflect a brew house's actual extraction rate. The beauty of these calculations is that they can be worked backwards from the final volume and O.G. and forwards from the grist mass, points per pound or kilogram, and the final volume on any all-grain recipe.

With that said, please do not assume that I am an anti-software luddite. I hold undergraduate (BSc) and graduate (MSc) degrees in computer science (U.S. graduate school = UK postgraduate school). My concern is that over-reliance on brewing software is preventing actual learning from occurring. There is a joy in being able to work the numbers for a brew with only a pencil and a piece of paper. It frees one from having to rely on a whirling deterministic finite automaton (a.k.a. a computer) to give one the answers.

[Subsonic]

I was given the spreadsheet from a guy I met over the net and finally met in Texas for the Dixie Cup. He is pretty famous over the pond for his brewing. I can't say I understand the way it works (i.e the formulas) but I don't fiddle with them, I just plug in my grain bill, my efficiency and my desired gravity and it does the rest, calculating my dough in, sparge volume etc. etc. its neat. I am sure there is software that does all this now but I don't bother. Recently though I have been going a bit back to the old school as my home malting is not exactly scientific. I now sit with a pencil and paper and do the math(s). Yeastwhisperer I agree with you. My father was a mathematician and when the spreadsheet dies, the pc frys or the electricity goes my bit of paper and grey matter will get me through ok. Today I smelt my malt and thought to myself, nah, I will do 6kg with this and not 5.2. Then I thought, how the hell did I know that? Sub

[Nigel1969]

I had the same problem, only getting 60% efficiency. I started running the wort from my mash tun out a lot slower. I was emptying it in 30 mins, now its nearer 50. And now I always add an extra 300g of extra malt than the recipe states. I always mash for 90 mins, boil for 60mins. Hope this helps,

[tudou]

I've set up a spreadsheet on Google Drive based on YeastWhisperer's recommendations and formulae. Should be downloadable if anyone finds it useful.

Recipe Adjuster based on Points/Kg/Litre

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... sp=sharing

[IPA]

If its a constant just up the grain bill and factor it in, grain is cheap - at least for you guys in the UK! Sub

I live in France and I use the Malt Miller in the UK or Brouwland in Belgium for my supplies not much difference in grain prices including delivery but the Malt Miller wins every time on hop price and speed of delivery.