Working out water chemistry

[mabrungard]

Woah, careful there, with the low level of calcium in the water (36) then he is going to have some issues if he doesn't add at least some. . . . according to various sources the minimum level you should be looking at for any beer is 60mg/l (some say 50).

Not really. Calcium is not required in brewing water. The malt provides all the calcium that yeast need for their health and metabolism. The ONLY things that calcium provides are: complexing with oxalate from the malt and its precipitation, and aiding with the flocculation performance of yeast.

My anecdotal research shows that about 40 ppm Ca is sufficient for oxalate precipitation in the mash. Removing oxalate should reduce beerstone formation in the brewery. For ale brewing, having a decent amount of calcium in the water is important for getting the beer to clear in a decent amount of time. 50 ppm seems to be a good minimum value for ale brewing. In the case of lager brewing, there is much less need for flocculation and therefore: calcium in the water. We have ample evidence of hundreds of large lager brewers that use very low calcium water and don't add much or any calcium salts. Pilsen comes to mind. For lager brewing, the lagering process eventually clears the beer. Another troubling fact about calcium and lager brewing is that some lager yeast can be impeded if the ratio of calcium and magnesium gets out of range in the wort. Malt infuses the wort with calcium and magnesium at a rate of about 1 part calcium and 2 to 6 parts magnesium. If the brewing water has a bunch of calcium in it, it could push that ratio out of whack.

Excepting for the reasons mentioned above, calcium is not needed in brewing water. If your yeast are flocculating adequately and you're not incurring beerstone, you don't need to add calcium to your brewing water. Add calcium only as needed to provide the anions needed for your beer flavor and don't worry about the calcium level too much.

[jez666]

For pale ale you want your alkalinity to be down around 30 ppm, (no higher than 50 ppm) and ideally your sulphate: chloride ratio should be 2:1 or a bit higher even. The best way to get alkalinity levels down is to use an acid such as sulphuric or hydrochloric. The former will also increase sulphate levels, the latter chloride levels. You should have a play with Bru'n Water or similar to get a feel for things.

If you intend to use sulphic you might want to read this thread.[/quote]


Thats an interesting thread Dave, it doesn't inspire confidence in Murphy's. I had worked out the CaC03 in my water to 180 whereas my report states 154, and was assuming I had got it wrong, but could it be a mistake on their part? Also looking at bru'n water it asks for sodium, potassium and iron but these were not included in my report, how important are these?

Cheers for the help

Jez

[Aleman]

Sorry Martin, I disagree, I have a very similar level of Calcium in my water and I have difficulty in getting my yeast to flocculate unless I increase it . . . And that is with yeast that are known as good flocculators.

I have also worked in breweries with a much higher level of calcium in the water that have a significant beer stone issue.

I've also had the opportunity to brew in small Czech breweries which have low calcium levels and use calcium chloride to raise it . . . While the bigger ones may not . . .

[Dave S]

For pale ale you want your alkalinity to be down around 30 ppm, (no higher than 50 ppm) and ideally your sulphate: chloride ratio should be 2:1 or a bit higher even. The best way to get alkalinity levels down is to use an acid such as sulphuric or hydrochloric. The former will also increase sulphate levels, the latter chloride levels. You should have a play with Bru'n Water or similar to get a feel for things.

If you intend to use sulphic you might want to read this thread.

Thats an interesting thread Dave, it doesn't inspire confidence in Murphy's. I had worked out the CaC03 in my water to 180 whereas my report states 154, and was assuming I had got it wrong, but could it be a mistake on their part? Also looking at bru'n water it asks for sodium, potassium and iron but these were not included in my report, how important are these?

Cheers for the help

Jez[/quote]

That's interesting as my report from Murphy's quoted alkalinity at 165, whereas my own measurements using Salifert have never strayed from 195 +/- 5 in 2 years. This is also about 30 above Murphy's as is yours. The mineral entries are important in order to get the ion balance. Having said that I've always entered zero for potassium and iron as I don't have the figures from my water reports, sodium I do. So there is an element of guesstimation there. You should be able to get the missing figures from your water authority if you ask. In all this though, the crucial element is getting your alkalinity in the right ball park.

[Eric]

Sorry Martin, I disagree, I have a very similar level of Calcium in my water and I have difficulty in getting my yeast to flocculate unless I increase it . . . And that is with yeast that are known as good flocculators.

I have also worked in breweries with a much higher level of calcium in the water that have a significant beer stone issue.

I've also had the opportunity to brew in small Czech breweries which have low calcium levels and use calcium chloride to raise it . . . While the bigger ones may not . . .

Brewlab supply yeasts for low mineral worts. They are mostly flavour neutral, i.e. little flavour.
Brewed today to notice beerstone on the FV from the last brew despite calcium at 140ppm, but wasn't with a low mineral yeast.