Beer not aging for the better

[andyisavinit]

Been all grain biabing for about a year and a half, maybe a brew a month at least and recently been water treating by brew water with good results. I like to think I've got my technique sorted and have consistently been making good beer.

A few months ago i did a London pride from GW book and kegged it (I normally bottle). I used nottingham yeast on that occasion. I was very impressed with the clean no off flavours (to my taste anyway) to the brew. So i did another batch of London P but this time used wlp 002 and bottled it. I mashed a tad lower temp too, to try a less bodied brew. After ferment and a week in the warm place to carbonate in the bottles I had a bottle and was extremely happy with the flavour, mouth feel, maltyness, carbonation, hops - everything really. Mash ph was good too and there was no harshness to the beer just clean flavour. I was chuffed to bits!

2 weeks later the beer seems to have lost it's freshness/clean taste. It now seems like harshness to the brew is creeping back in (as if my mash ph was too high). 3 weeks later and no improvement. When i had my first bottle I thought it was only going to get better. Doesn't seem to be panning out that way.

Storage/aging is in a dark room at about 10-12 degrees. Should be prefect.

Whats going on as generally all my beer gets better with age. Should I just keep waiting - or is some beer just better really green.

[Pinto]

Only thing that tends to decline with ageing is Hop aroma and flavour. would you describe the harshness a tannin harsh ? spirity ? possible you could have an infection in the brew.

[Matt12398]

Sounds like an infection to me.

[andyisavinit]

yeh I'd say it was a tannin harshness - as I was used to that with my high ph mashes that i used to do - but even those brews after a few months became smoother.

Infection - surely not

[Mr. Dripping]

Infection - surely not

Did you measure the final gravity at bottling??
An infection will eat the residual sugar and you will get an increase in carbonation.
Pour a bottle, de-gas it and take a gravity reading.

[fisherman]

Did you fly sparge or batch sparge. If you have fly sparged and caused tannins to be released into the beer while the beer is green it contains more dextrins so sweetness will overide the taste until the dextrins are used up. I am a fan of batch sparging to avoid tannins and over mashing with the same result. This is only an opinion I cant say because I have not tasted the beer just a theory.

[andyisavinit]

Sparging - No don't do that – I brew in a bag. After the 90mins I do a mash out (increase by 10 degrees or so) then let the bag drain, no squeezing. Maybe this is in the wrong section.

Will crack another tonight and check the carbonation and take a gravity reading and report back. FG was 1.013/012 from memory (i have notes that i can check). I batched primed with only 65g for 43x550ml bottles.

An infection wouldn't cause this harshness would it, it would be more unpleasant? I have had two infections before (if you can call them infections), both batches were sour as f**k. Caused by filtering my hops from the cooled wort through the grain sack that i used to mash with. I didn't clean & sanitize my sack properly. I no longer use this method. had to dump them - totally undrinkable.

I'm not sure if the harshness is getting worse, but theyre by no means undrinkable.

Would you say that because they are not as good now that i definitely have an infection? Because all beer gets better with age!

[Charles1968]

It's possible your lower mash pH has given you a drier beer than you'd intended. As the beer conditions and the yeast slowly consumes the last of the sugar, it gets drier, which means bitterness from the hops may be too prominent if there's no sweetness to balance it. At the same time, carbonation makes the beer more acidic, giving it a slightly sharper taste. The best solution to harsh bitterness at this stage is to cold condition the beer - this will drop out the tannins and give you smoother beer. As cold as possible, near freezing, for at least 2-3 weeks and longer if possible.

[andyisavinit]

It wasn't lower mash ph but lower mash temp - maybe thats what you meant as your comment could make sense. Lower temp (64 degrees) = more fermentable sugar. As it's bottled I'll try cold conditioning a few bottles (good time at the moment as in my garage it's probably only just above freezing).

I did try another last night - and it is getting worse - still not undrinkable but nothing like my first sample a week after bottling. (It's now nearly 3 weeks since bottling). I de-gassed and took a grav reading. It was 1.011 down from 1.013. I did batch prime 65g of sugar. And it does seem more gassy than the first bottles I poured. So thats all adding up to infection.

Gutted as I have over 30 bottles left

Must have been at bottling time that the infection occurred. And over time ( 2 weeks it has become a noticeable flavour, and getting worse i think). Suspects being my stirring spoon ( i accidentally used my old one that i swore i would never use again, why i kept it i don't know), my little bottler tube does seem very slightly grimey on the inside, or an airborn infection got in while the lid was off the bottling bucket. Can't be the bottles themselves or there would be some that taste good.

[Matt12398]

I still think it sounds like a mild infection but 1.011 to 1.013 wouldn't necessarily be the indicator as the priming sugar would slightly increase the ABV and alcohol will slightly reduce the proportional S.G. You'll probably also find that there is a very slight additional attenuation in the bottles. You often find that residual sweetness decreases slightly over time with bottle conditioned beers. All very slight though.

If you have a beer which tastes good soon after bottling and the taste gets worse over time it tends to be an infection.

I would only say the taste can be attributed to tannins if the tannins taste was there at the beginning.

[Charles1968]

It wasn't lower mash ph but lower mash temp - maybe thats what you meant as your comment could make sense.

sorry, my mistake, I did mean temp. It might be an infection if it's starting to taste odd or sour. Check for any physical signs, e.g. floating matter or cloudiness. Not the end of the world - it just means you need to bring forward your next brew day.

[Belter]

Lacto will make a batch really sour. You got that from your malt sack.

There are many other bacteria/yeast that do weird things to beer. Not sure if this an infection or not but it could be

[andyisavinit]

Well 2 more days later and the beer is now no longer drinakable. It is properly horrible. Hard to describe the flavour. Astrigent?? What does that taste like? It's not like the sour taste I had before ( then I could even smell the sourness). Anyway def an infection.

I'm now worried about my latest batch (the one after this disater) which is currently tasting fantsatic, again only 5 days carbonating/conditioning. Shitting it because it might go the same way. Drank 5 bottles last night just incase it does.

That'll be what 16 hrs work inc bottling time wasted. still you live and learn - cleanliness and sanitation!!!!! Clean those pipes better!

I suspect the little bottler. I used it again for this second batch, hence my worry. Wish me luck. Please beer gods be kind!