Real basic AG lager

[pantsmachine]

Hi all,

I have been meaning to brew a lager for my Dad for a while and i am planning to use Vierka Lager yeast (he used it in the 70's with good results). Apart from that i intend to use MO as the only malt and Hallertau Tradition as the boil and late hop. Nice and simple no complex recipes.

I am a IPA brewer and i usually hit my mash temp real high to keep body in the beer to offset the hop avalanche. Question is what's the ideal mash temp for a lager aimed grist and is it a step mash? I plan to brew this and leave it in the conical until it reaches FG, i will then transfer to a HDPE container to condition and bottle around May (end of Scottish Winter). No fridges, no temp control, just natures freezer. I may dry hop with something German at the end or just keep it clean. Does anyone have the average duration for a lager fermentation at 3 degrees?

Any advice/experiences much appreciated.

[Rick_UK]

Mash temp as you would an ale - for more body higher for less lower, depends on the style of lager you are going for.

Conventional wisdom on lagering is a minimum of 6 weeks depending on temps - lower temps nearer 0 give a smoother lager but may need twice as long, warmer temps around 7 or 8'C will be quicker but leave more ale like esters. As always it's not an exact science and different yeasts prefer slightly different conditions.

Getting the pitching rate right is probably the biggest challenge - I prefer to pitch warm (16'C) and let it drop to 12 once first signs of fermentation are present. Pitching cool guards against any fruity esters creeping in but requires much higher rates - I would defo use a large starter if pitching cold.

Rick

[Charles1968]

Mash between 64 (dry or lite lager) and 67 (fuller body). I wouldn't dry hop as it might cause haze problems. 3 degrees sounds too low for fermentation so I assume you mean secondary or lagering? I would guess minimum 12 weeks at that temperature. It should easily be ready by May.

[pantsmachine]

Thanks lads,

As ever its evolving. I think i'll go for a decoction mash since it all about the malt. Also erring towards WLP838 now. Thanks for the dry hop/haze heads up. I will see just how clear it drops and certainly factor it in. Maris,Hallertau T & WLP 838, simple! if memory serves correctly my garage will maintain a steady 7 degrees over Winter. I think i'll buy a 60 ltr bucket so i can bring the brew inside for a week or so at the end of fermentation. I was a huge fan of Keller beer when i was over in Germany so i'll have a read up on decoction mashes to hit a smooth malty profile. This is weird i am SO about the hop in other brews!

[BenB]

If you bottle a lager and have lagered it in a keg what do you do about priming? Do you prime it and then raise the temp for bottle conditioning? Presumably if you condition beer at 4 degrees you'll get no fermentation for carbonation? If you raise the temp for carbonation do you then have to lower it again (essentially a mini lagering for the carbonation phase?).

I'm an ale man but fancy brewing some lager for those hot summer days of next year

[Rick_UK]

Thanks lads,

As ever its evolving. I think i'll go for a decoction mash since it all about the malt. Also erring towards WLP838 now. Thanks for the dry hop/haze heads up. I will see just how clear it drops and certainly factor it in. Maris,Hallertau T & WLP 838, simple! if memory serves correctly my garage will maintain a steady 7 degrees over Winter. I think i'll buy a 60 ltr bucket so i can bring the brew inside for a week or so at the end of fermentation. I was a huge fan of Keller beer when i was over in Germany so i'll have a read up on decoction mashes to hit a smooth malty profile. This is weird i am SO about the hop in other brews!

I'm no expert but recall reading somewhere that British 2 row malts didn't require a stepped mash and full conversation can be achieved with single infusion. So would question to value of a stepped mash.

Rick

[pantsmachine]

I agree Rick but if you look at it from the point of view of damn good fun with boiling liquids for possibly mythical returns how could i not?

BenB, Personally i will gravity draw the beer off the yeast cake through a side tap towards the bottom of the conical. i will then use X amount of the yeast cake post simplistic clean (i'll be blagging a few test tubes of the yeast anyway for ale brewing to see how it goes) and will store and then grow once the lager has laggered for a few Months. I am aiming to brew this on my return from Saudi 15th Jan, i am then off to Turkey with my Dad for a fortnight (that should be enough time to ferment out). So beginning Feb through to late April/early May laggering then prime with the reinvigorated yeast, bottle and store again until 1st July? Plan!

[fisherman]

I brewed a pale lager and bottled it 8 weeks ago stored in the brewfidge for conditioning for 7 days then the garage. I am now drinking wonderfull lager type beer.
45 litres brew
18lb Pilsner malt
2lb Vienna malt
1 lb Munich malt
yeast so4
15 grms magnum @ 60min
10grn Tettang @ 20
50grma Hallertau millf @ 15 mins
90 min mash @ 67oc
Batch sparged @ 77oc , 1 hour boil ' fermented in the brewfridge for 7 days @ 18oc then into secondary for 7 days and bottled.

[pantsmachine]

Ehhh, Good? But that's a pale ale imitating a lager (nothing wrong there) as S04 is an ale yeast and a weeks lager kind of goes against what lager is. I.E cold store over an extended period. In saying that i'd be more than happy to sit down and discuss the pro's & con's of styles over a couple of your Lager type beers! Merry Christmas!

[faeyd]

I had a pilsner turn out fantastic recently. Fermented at 10c with saflager yeast for 3 weeks. 2 months lagering at 2c. Did not dry hop. Used 100g of Saaz during the boil for 20 litres.

[fisherman]

Hi pants machine, I did mention on my reply Lager type beer. I make 10 gallon brews only and brew weekly until my 1000 bottles are full. My brews go from fermenter to secondary every 7 days so timescale is important continuos brewing requires less work sterilising as the vessels are always full. I like pale beers and favour very low EBC crystals in very small quantities if at all. I like to drink my beer 8 to 20 weeks matured. Commercial brewery Lager is certainly not tasty enough for me nor heavy crystal beers. We all try to brew to our likes.

[chris.laws.54943]

I'm lagering for the first time (did one last year which was a disaster so it doesn't count)
It's gonna be bohemian/Vienna 72/28% with Saaz and bohemian lager yeast. I want something similar to urquell so any suggestions on mash temp or anything else I should know would be appreciated! Cheers.

[pantsmachine]

Around 65 degrees seems to be the average, in saying that i have only made one lager and it was uninspiring so i am in the same boat. My Dad has since i was a lad said about the clean flavour of the best lagers so i am going to minimise and keep it simple and let the yeast do its work. Fisherman, 1K bottles, you must have a heck of a store? I work with 200 to 300 and that takes a bit of cupboard juggling. How do you manage it?

[chris.laws.54943]

Cheers pantsmachine. Fwiw I have since brewed the stated lager. Mashed at 67. It had a week at about 9-10c and now in a carbon in the fridge at about 4c. Checked for flavour and clarity and it tastes great already and is getting clearer. All looking good thus far!