Water Water Water!? Moving to tap water

[barneey]

Agree with the kit for alkalinity (even though mine doesn't change much), what I think sending for tests did was put me in the right zone for all of the additions. I was in a muddle over balancing sulphate:chloride ratios, mash pH, alkalinity. The test gave me a clear picture of what I should be doing and provides a good reliable baseline.

Mine doesn't change much either, (yet) but I wouldn't be happy taking my eye off the ball for the sake of £7 and a twice yearly full analysis.

Yep I am quite fortunate that mine hasn't changed too much, reading the water tests I have had done this year viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68697 I should have however got a test done in the Summer time, getting an accurate test also means you can play with the calculators a little more / get better advice from forum members based on your report & brew you want to do.

Unless you are fortunate enough to have a fresh test done every brew a salifert or other alkalinity test is your best weapon on brew day.

[Kev888]

My brewing water doesn't change often but when it does its a 'huge' change - guess they must pipe in water from a completely different source once in a while. Whether relying on professional water tests or more generic local supplier reports, it would be 'very' ill advised IMO to treat the water without at least checking that the water you're treating is what you expect - the alkalinity test kit flags this up instantly and stops me making things worse with my usual treatments.

I'd be a little wary of local water reports, they can be averages for an area and/or snap shots in time and not very representative of your actual brewing water. They can also be confusing since they can talk about hardness rather than total alkalinity (which is different) and use the same units for other things. I would strongly suggest using the test kits mentioned instead, mine have come with a small bottle of 'check' solution to make sure you're getting it right, then you can test your actual brewing water. Also I would suggest using the chart included with the kit to convert from ml syringe readings to generic measures like miliequivalent per L (meq/L) - the manufacturer can change the kits so other/older charts found online may not be applicable. Once you have the total alkalinity in meq/L, multiplying by 50 gives you it as equivalent CaCO3 ppm.

Its all slightly down to opinion but I aim for roughly the following:

• Lager and very pale lager-like Beers. Alkalinity as CaC03 - up to 30 p.p.m.
  Bitter and Pale Ale. Alkalinity as CaC03 - up to 50 p.p.m.
  Dark Bitters, Porter, Stout, Dark Milds. Alkalinity as CaC03 - 100 to 150 p.p.m.

EDIT: theres a good pictorial guide of using the test kit in the knowledge base here (remembering what I said about the chart possibly having changed), and a useful overview of basic (and usually quite sufficient) water treatment here

Cheers
Kev

[Charles1968]

Does it also make sense to double-check the alkalinity of bottled mineral water before making up sanitising solution with starsan? If the mineral content of bottled water fluctuates and alkalinity is higher than expected given the mineral levels printed on the label, starsan might be rendered useless without the user knowing it.

[Kev888]

Yes possibly, though I think the bottled water people use for starsan is pretty consistent. But the key measure there is the acidity of the mixed solution, which can be checked directly with meters and test papers if required. IIRC if its more acidic than a PH of 3 then its okay. It also goes cloudy if not acidic enough - it can go cloudy for other reasons too, but I don't 'think' it can be out of range and yet still clear, least I can't recall hearing of that.

Cheers
kev

[orlando]

IIRC if its more acidic than a PH of 3 then its okay. It also goes cloudy if not acidic enough - it can go cloudy for other reasons too, but I don't 'think' it can be out of range and yet still clear, least I can't recall hearing of that.

pH is the only thing to worry about as far as I know, cloudiness is not important, my own water goes cloudy but the pH test assured me it was a fatally hostile environment for our purposes.

[Charles1968]

I don't have a pH meter or test strips to check my sanitiser (which is saniclean rather than starsan, but also based on phosphoric acid) so I sometimes dip my finger and taste it. The solution is clear but I can't taste any tartness. I've tried it with tesco ashbeck and asda eden falls. I would have thought a pH under 3 would be unmistakeable to the human tongue..

[orlando]

I would have thought a pH under 3 would be unmistakeable to the human tongue..

I use Starsan and it is formulated to be tasteless, colourless and odour free, which is why it is advertised as no-rinse. It is possible to use it made up for several brews before replacing making it very economical. For your average HB'er the level of safe handling it affords makes it suitable for anyone to use and means you can avoid some of the more serious stuff that can cause harm.

[SimmoUK]

Right, so I've received my testing kit and have given it a test before work this morning.

The result came back as 10.7 KH in dKH, 3.83 Alkalinity in meq/L, so using SaltyZoo's calculator it worked out as 191.07 CaCO3 ppm.

So... Assuming I kicked off a brew today and I went for a Hoppy IPA. Does the following sound correct or have I missed something?


1. Use Campden tablet(s) to remove Chlorine. 1 tablet treats 20 gal so 1/4 of a tablet should treat 25 litres.

2. Adjust Alkalinity in the water for the IPA: Use CRS from Brupaks or something similar to reduce the Alkalinity down to around 50 CaCO3 ppm, which means I'd need to reduce to (191.07 - 50 = ) by 141 ppm which by the look of their website means using around 0.75 millilitres per litre. So a 25 litre brew would be 0.75x25 = 18.75 millilitres of CRS.

3. Adjust Calcium in the water for the IPA: So 191x0.4 = 76.4 ppm Calcium (from Brupaks calculation page again), I should be around 190ppm so I need to add Gypsum/Calcium Sulfate. Add 2 level teaspoons of Gypsum (in 25 litres of water) to raise it by enough.


So to summarise - add 18.75 millilitres of CRS, 2 level teaspoons of Gypsum, and 1/4 Campden tablet to give me the right water for IPA. Add all in water boil before adding malt/hops.

Sound good or have I got it wrong?!


Cheers, Andy

[Eric]

Right, so I've received my testing kit and have given it a test before work this morning.

The result came back as 10.7 KH in dKH, 3.83 Alkalinity in meq/L, so using SaltyZoo's calculator it worked out as 191.07 CaCO3 ppm.

So... Assuming I kicked off a brew today and I went for a Hoppy IPA. Does the following sound correct or have I missed something?


1. Use Campden tablet(s) to remove Chlorine. 1 tablet treats 20 gal so 1/4 of a tablet should treat 25 litres.

2. Adjust Alkalinity in the water for the IPA: Use CRS from Brupaks or something similar to reduce the Alkalinity down to around 50 CaCO3 ppm, which means I'd need to reduce to (191.07 - 50 = ) by 141 ppm which by the look of their website means using around 0.75 millilitres per litre. So a 25 litre brew would be 0.75x25 = 18.75 millilitres of CRS.

OK. Consider reducing alkalinity a little more, get it nearer 30ppm. You need to reduce the alkalinity of all water by the necessary amount. Is that 25 litres brew length or total liquor? I treat 35 litres for a 23 litre brew so the mutiplicand is 35. Do another Salifert test on the treated liquor to confirm your additions got the alkalinity in the right area.

3. Adjust Calcium in the water for the IPA: So 191x0.4 = 76.4 ppm Calcium (from Brupaks calculation page again), I should be around 190ppm so I need to add Gypsum/Calcium Sulfate. Add 2 level teaspoons of Gypsum (in 25 litres of water) to raise it by enough.

It appears that calculation is made on the assumption that calcium forms only alkalinity and alkalinity is only formed of calcium. While that measurement can be described in an amount of calcium carbonate, it is the quantity of calcium carbonate that would produce the same effect. Some of the alkalinity will be due to magnesium and there will be calcium salts in that water that are in forms that are not alkaline. This is where a full analysis is advisable, but at this stage, 2 spoons of gypsum is probably a fair guesttimate. Now, if your water is like mine, adding gypsum to it ends up with me cleaning sludge out of the HLT. So I'd mix one spoonful well into the grains before they go into the mash and add the other to the boiler to help clear the beer and ensure enough gets into the fermenter for the yeast.

So to summarise - add 18.75 millilitres of CRS, 2 level teaspoons of Gypsum, and 1/4 Campden tablet to give me the right water for IPA. Add all in water boil before adding malt/hops.

Sound good or have I got it wrong?!


Cheers, Andy

Treat all liquor with acid to the right level of alkalinity.
Split the salts between mash and later stages.
No need to boil water, get it hot enough for the right strike temperature.

[SimmoUK]

Fantastic, really helpful, Thanks Eric. Time to order the ingredients I reckon

[Rogermort]

Complete newcomer to this, just starting to put the kit together.
I have access to a spring (used to be the market town water supply 100 years ago) would there be any benefit using that for brewing rather than treated tap water?

[Eric]

Complete newcomer to this, just starting to put the kit together.
I have access to a spring (used to be the market town water supply 100 years ago) would there be any benefit using that for brewing rather than treated tap water?

Only if you get it tested to learn what it contains. Most UK water company supplies are good, treatment will vary depending not only upon the water, but also the style being made.
There are waters across the world that are not as suitable as in UK for making beer which may to some degree be resposible for the frequent fear to use what comes out of our taps.

[Rogermort]

Can anyone suggest where to send initial samples for testing? I'm in the Midlands and thought it might make sense to send samples of both my domestic supply and the spring supply to see which is the best to kick off with. I'm planning to brew English style pale ales.

[BenB]

Wallybrew on this forum does water tests. Otherwise Murphys (the company) do them also. Spring water should remain fairly constant but springs can get contaminated so personally I wouldn't use it without a full water report including toxins. Not sure where you can get one of those- more the kind of thing the water companies do.