Hi all
I've had a saison fermenting for the past 17 days. Started at about 1.053, and according to my refractometer (using a correction calculator), it now stands at 1.006/7. I've never used this yeast before, and have read that it can be a little finickity. I've had the lid of the fermenter on only loosely, and have been using an immersion heater to keep the temp at 24/26c from about 2 days after pitching. Grist was 82% Belgian Pale, 10% Munich, 8% Torrified Wheat mashed at 67c.
I'm wondering whether to bottle now, or leave it longer. Thoughts please (or questions).
WLP565 - Saison yeast
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BrannigansLove
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Re: WLP565 - Saison yeast
That's 87% attenuation so if the gravity is stable I'd say it's done. I'd use a hydrometer though.
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BrannigansLove
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Re: WLP565 - Saison yeast
Alas my most hydrometer has gone the way of so many others, and rolled off the counter and smashed in the sink. I'll give it a few days and measure it again. I assumed it was done, but then heard a bubble through the airlock this morning. I'm not sure whether this is from fermentation or from the immersion heater causing expansion.
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Jocky
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Re: WLP565 - Saison yeast
It's done.
That's almost exactly what I had for my saison with WLP565 that had around the same starting gravity, although I pitched at 25C and finished it at 30C, and mashed lower.
Like you I didn't have the supposed Dupont yeast 'stall'. I had the fermenter cracked open like you (although these days I'd snap it down and airlock it when close to terminal gravity), I made a good sized starter, and it's not a super strength wort to start with.
I'm not sure about whether the open ferment really is the difference, I'll try it again soon to see soon. I suspect more that people that have had the 'stall' have either been underpitching, or they are making strong saisons, and that this yeast is not very tolerant of one or the other. Perhaps it can't replicate that much, so if they've pitched a single vial with no starter, or if they're making a strong saison the cells that are in there can only deal with so much, and it gets stuck at until some mutants manage to grow up enough to take over and finish the job...
Anyway, I'd package it up now rather than let any more oxygen into it. I really recommend carbonating it to 3 volumes, and if you're bottling give it at least 2 weeks at around 20C. It'll be even better after 6 weeks.
That's almost exactly what I had for my saison with WLP565 that had around the same starting gravity, although I pitched at 25C and finished it at 30C, and mashed lower.
Like you I didn't have the supposed Dupont yeast 'stall'. I had the fermenter cracked open like you (although these days I'd snap it down and airlock it when close to terminal gravity), I made a good sized starter, and it's not a super strength wort to start with.
I'm not sure about whether the open ferment really is the difference, I'll try it again soon to see soon. I suspect more that people that have had the 'stall' have either been underpitching, or they are making strong saisons, and that this yeast is not very tolerant of one or the other. Perhaps it can't replicate that much, so if they've pitched a single vial with no starter, or if they're making a strong saison the cells that are in there can only deal with so much, and it gets stuck at until some mutants manage to grow up enough to take over and finish the job...
Anyway, I'd package it up now rather than let any more oxygen into it. I really recommend carbonating it to 3 volumes, and if you're bottling give it at least 2 weeks at around 20C. It'll be even better after 6 weeks.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.
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BrannigansLove
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Re: WLP565 - Saison yeast
Cheers Jocky, good to hear from someone who's used the same yeast. I'll get some bottles cleaned tonight, and try and get it packaged. The samples I've taken for measurements have tasted pretty damned good.
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BrannigansLove
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Re: WLP565 - Saison yeast
Alas I checked under the lid last night, and this has become infected. Gutted about having to chuck it. Will have to brew up a new batch next week, and get it bottled as soon as it's done.
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WalesAles
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Re: WLP565 - Saison yeast
BL,BrannigansLove wrote:Alas I checked under the lid last night, and this has become infected. Gutted about having to chuck it. Will have to brew up a new batch next week, and get it bottled as soon as it's done.
Have you tasted it since Tuesday where you said it was `Pretty Damn Good`?
If it tastes OK, I`d bottle it.
I`ve had infections on the top of 2 of my beers, skimmed / seived off all the muck on top and they were fine.
Hope you can save it!
WA
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BrannigansLove
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Re: WLP565 - Saison yeast
I ditched it. The smell was overpowering, and life's too short to waste it on ropey beer. It was only a small batch, and didn't cost much.
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BrannigansLove
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Re: WLP565 - Saison yeast
Rebrewed this on Wednesday. Hopefully I'll manage to get it bottled this time
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Jocky
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Re: WLP565 - Saison yeast
Used this again a pale saison, tweaking the recipe a bit to round out the beer. I really love the flavours of this yeast, but if you're going to use it then your saison really will just be about showcasing the yeast.
Pilsner malt, 10% flaked wheat (another adjunct or grain might be nice, but I'd stay away from crystal or roasted grains - rye would probably be ace) and 10% sugar - I like orange blossom honey for a little extra something. Mash as low as you can - I mash in at 55C for 15 minutes and then up to 62C for 45min and finally 15 min at 70C.
Stick with noble hops split between a 60 min bittering that will deliver most of your IBU, and the rest with 1 minute left. Saaz is my preferred, but I've also used Magnum for bittering and Hallertauer mittelfruh or Goldings to finish.
Expect it to drop to 1.002-1.008 if treated right - make a decent size ale starter.
First time I brewed it I went to 1.045 and about 28 IBU. Started it at 25C for 48 hours and then ramped 1C per day to 30C where it sat for about 10 days. Finished at 1.007. It's a fantastic drinker, but I wanted a bit more bite.
Most recent incarnation is 1.058 and near 40 IBU. Started at 22C (ambient - temperature in brew fridge, not on fermenter, to let it 'free rise') for 48 hours and then ramped at 2C per day until 30C. At 1.004 it seems to be done now after 11 days.
Don't worry if the yeast kicks off some sulphur and seems a to have a little solvent aroma to it at the end - just leave it at 30C for a few more days and it'll fade out.
Prime to 3 volumes, and age for 3 months.
Pilsner malt, 10% flaked wheat (another adjunct or grain might be nice, but I'd stay away from crystal or roasted grains - rye would probably be ace) and 10% sugar - I like orange blossom honey for a little extra something. Mash as low as you can - I mash in at 55C for 15 minutes and then up to 62C for 45min and finally 15 min at 70C.
Stick with noble hops split between a 60 min bittering that will deliver most of your IBU, and the rest with 1 minute left. Saaz is my preferred, but I've also used Magnum for bittering and Hallertauer mittelfruh or Goldings to finish.
Expect it to drop to 1.002-1.008 if treated right - make a decent size ale starter.
First time I brewed it I went to 1.045 and about 28 IBU. Started it at 25C for 48 hours and then ramped 1C per day to 30C where it sat for about 10 days. Finished at 1.007. It's a fantastic drinker, but I wanted a bit more bite.
Most recent incarnation is 1.058 and near 40 IBU. Started at 22C (ambient - temperature in brew fridge, not on fermenter, to let it 'free rise') for 48 hours and then ramped at 2C per day until 30C. At 1.004 it seems to be done now after 11 days.
Don't worry if the yeast kicks off some sulphur and seems a to have a little solvent aroma to it at the end - just leave it at 30C for a few more days and it'll fade out.
Prime to 3 volumes, and age for 3 months.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.
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BrannigansLove
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Re: WLP565 - Saison yeast
Coincidentally I brewed a saison this weekend. I had planned on keeping it at 18c for 4 days, then ramping up to 24c a degree a day. However the girlfriend unplugged the fridge on Tuesday to use her hair straighteners, and didn't plug it back in. When I noticed last night, it was sat at 21.6c, so I reset the controller to 21c. I think I'll follow your lead and ramp up quicker, and to a slightly higher temp (28c probably).
In terms of recipe, I went with the following:
50% Belgian pale
40% Vienna
10% Wheat
Goldings @ 60m for 24IBU
Goldings and Saaz @15m for 3.5IBU
Saaz @ 5m for 1IBU
In terms of recipe, I went with the following:
50% Belgian pale
40% Vienna
10% Wheat
Goldings @ 60m for 24IBU
Goldings and Saaz @15m for 3.5IBU
Saaz @ 5m for 1IBU
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BrannigansLove
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Re: WLP565 - Saison yeast
This has gone down from 1.010 to 1.006 in the last 3 days. Hopefully it's done now, and I'll measure it again on Friday. If it's still sat @ 1.006, I'll crash it, and bottle on Sunday.