Sour beer - attempting my first

[HairyJamie]

Hi all,

I'm planning how I'll attempt my first sour and I'd like some feedback from anyone with more experience than I have.

I plan to -

1) Mash and boil a 50/50 wheat/pilsner aiming for about 1.060 wort and keeping IBUs under 5
2) Ferment this normally with US05 - I don't want to taint my usual ferm buckets
3) After a week, rack this into a glass carboy specifically for souring - at this point i'll add a brett mix and the dregs of four or five Krieks (I'm loving oud beersel oude kriek at the moment)
4) Leave it in my Ferm cupboard at around 22 degrees C for 6 months
5) Add fruit directly to the carboy and leave for another 6 months - haven't decided what yet but probably frozen and defrosted cherries from the supermarket

Hopefully I'll then have something that I can get in a keg and quite highly carbonate.

Does anyone see any issues with the above? Will fermenting the wort to completion as with a clean beer then adding the bugs to something with alcohol present cause any issues?

Will I need to find a way to purge the carboy of oxygen?

So many questions but super excited to start my first sour!!

Thanks for looking

[serum]

I've added Brett after a clean fermentation and you get something like Orval from that but it's not sour. I don't know how well the lacto and etc will work once the sugars are largely already done. I guess all you can do is try and see if it's sour enough. Sours are a waiting game.

Id say getting a bucket just for sours would be good for the first 2 weeks so you can get the bugs in right away but then into the carboy with as little head space as possible to prevent oxidation while it's sat there. If youre waiting for a year or more then you're as well spending another tenner or so.

[HairyJamie]

Thanks Serum.

Good advice, it's the tart, sourness that I'm after so another tenner is money well spent if I need to pitch the bugs and the sach yeast at the same time.

I've been looking at glass carboys and my god they are expensive! I'm leaning towards a PET one now, the general wisdom seems to suggest that they don't let in much oxygen so I'll not make vinegar.

The other consideration for me at the moment is the volume - a year is a long time to wait for something that may need another 6 months after that, so doing 20ish litres may not be enough. I was thinking of potentially knocking up 40 litres, but then maybe I should do this in two batches as each may be slightly different?

[gaunt_paul]

Bugs in primary is a good idea if you like more tartness. The later the bugs go in, the less sourness in the end product. Alternatively you could mash at a higher temperature so that your us-05 saccharomyces fermentation leaves plenty of sugars for your bugs to feed on.

It may not be necessary to rack a lambic style beer of the yeast cake at all, as brett will feed on the dead yeast. You can break a lot of rules with sour beers.

[HairyJamie]

Bugs in primary it is then and I think I'll go for a 68 degree mash

Cheers

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[HairyJamie]

I could only get wlp648 at my lhbs today - anyone have any experience of this? I have it in a 3 litre starter and I'm planning to pitch it with a packet of us-05.

A bit nervous there's no lacto in this mix so it might not get that tartness I'm after.

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[jamieN]

Hi Jamie seems like I'm talking to myself in the 3rd person here which I do quite often.

Wlp 648 going by the white labs site says it is best suited for primary fermentation so by by the time us05 is done there will not be much left to eat for the Brett.

So there won't be much left sour probably only funkiness.

I'm only on my third sour so I don't have much experience.

Look up the sour hour on the brewing network and listen for the gems of wisdom.

Remember Brett takes a long time time to replicate so your starter will take longer than a normal Sach yeast.

Jamie

[Cazamodo]

Has anyone kettle soured?

I read about mashing as normal, pumping to kettle, then adding a bret/wild yeats to sour it.
Keep a check on the PH (or taste I guess) until he sourness you want is reached, then boil it up.

In theory kills any yeast, you boil and hop as usual, then ferment as usual.

[kev93_10]

That's done with Lacto. Brett takes months to work.....and it isn't sour.

K


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[HairyJamie]

I ended up pitching the wlp648 and sprinkling a pack of us05 at the same time, I'd mashed high so hopefully there's some dextrins left for the Brett.
I also poured in three bottles worth of kriek dregs.
It's still in a primary bucket but I got a pet Carboy which I'll transfer to at the weekend for aging.

Going to leave this for 6 months and see where it takes me!

I'd like to save some of the primary yeast cake for my next batch, anyone have any tips? Do I have to store in the fridge?


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[kev93_10]

Yes. Sterilise a kilner jar then dump it in that.

Pop in fridge until needed.

K


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[HairyJamie]

Thanks Kev , exactly what I do with my clean yeasts


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[duncans]

Sounds great. Good luck.
The kriek dregs should have all the bugs you need, right? Should be lacto, brett and pedio in there I think.

[HairyJamie]

Thanks - had a sneaky sample when transferring to secondary and it already tastes very farmhousey now the long wait!


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