Extract potential

[WalesAles]

HaHa! Awesome!
Sometimes I really wish I would/could stop reading threads like this.

(I might learn something!)

WA

[guypettigrew]

Hey Carol....lend me that gun as well.

Guy

[PeeBee]

... And yes, 454g of household sugar in 3785 ml of water will, indeed, give you an SG of 1.045/46. So what? Crazy numbers. ...

Sorry, didn't see this first time round.

454grams = 1 Pound (Lb)
3785ml = 1 US Gallon

[PeeBee]

Hey Carol....lend me that gun as well.

Guy

Carol says she put any guns and dangerous tools out of my reach, because the hospital told her to years ago.

Bummer!

[PeeBee]

Hey Carol....lend me that gun as well.

And when you think it's safe, I'll resurrect all this stuff in my Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods thread!

[PeeBee]

...
Someone ("leedsandy" on May 31, 2011) on a Beersmith forum wrote:

454g of sucrose yields 46 gravity points in 3785ml of water
Therefore 1000g yields 46/454x1000 = 101 gravity points in 3785 ml
Therefore 1000g yields 101x3785/1000 = 384 gravity points in 1000 ml

(My italics).

So (working backwards):

blah, blah, blah.

325 degrees per litre per kilo is 39 "gravity points" or 1.039 ... whatevers. It is some "American" fantasy (1 gallon = 3.785 litres!) but I got there in the end.

What would be really handy ...

if some clever soul could resolve "leedsandy's" formulas above into a single one converting "SG extract potential" (the US version as above) into "brewer's degrees per litre per kilo" ("°L/Kg"), and another doing it t'other way around.

I could try but you can see how far I've got ("blah, blah, blah."). I'm only really, really, clever at coming up with insane ideas.

[PeeBee]

Never mind, I've done it. But Eric wont be impressed 'cos I used a spreadsheet!

The "factor" is 8.34 (I think 2 decimal places is enough?).

So:

gravity points -> ° L/Kg is [gravity points]x8.34
° L/Kg -> gravity points is [° L/Kg]/8.34

If you want [gravity points] as SG divide by 1000 and add 1.

So if commercial Invert Sugar is given an extract value in the range of 321.5-326.5 ° litre per kg, it translates to SG 1.039 "potential 'extract' (US)" (100% "yield" 'cos it's sugar). I assume this drivel will apply to other recipe builders? This has been done with Beersmith in mind.

If you want to use this and are really, really, lucky, some one with better credentials than me will confirm if this is any good or will post something better.

[EDIT: The "yield" shouldn't be 100%, it contains non-fermentables. Sorry!]
[EDIT2: A linear factor - just a flat-rate factor - should be right 'cos both sides are probably using the same SG reference - 60F I'd suspect - but if not I don't think it would make any appreciable difference?]

[guypettigrew]

It's no good. I was going to stay away from this discussion, but the almost incomprehensible PeeBee post above makes it impossible!

What on earth are you trying to achieve here, Peebs?

I use invert sugar syrup in my beers from time to time. Home made, by the way. Eric's recipe. 500ml of the syrup, which contains 500g of sugar, when added to 23 litres of wort in the FV will raise the gravity by 7 points. This is exactly as predicted by GW's Beer Engine.

What more do you need to know? Potential extract for sugar simply means the gravity you'll get by dissolving 1 lb of sugar in 1 gallon of water. I seem to remember we've done these numbers several times.

You said earlier "I'm trying to recreate the "sugar", not make anything from the sugar (yet)". Still have no idea what you mean by this. If you want Eric's technique for making invert sugar syrup let me know. I'm sure he wouldn't mind me sending it on to you.

Guy

[PeeBee]

It's no good. I was going to stay away from this discussion, but the almost incomprehensible PeeBee post above makes it impossible! ...

Sorry!

But when I started the discussion I didn't realise I was opening a Pandora's box. All the arcane, Imperial, metric and American measures coming to roost in one place. So I did try and make amends by figuring it out meself (I think?).

Here's first snippet (Ragus):

in liquid form they consist of 95% invert and 5% sucrose, while in crystalline block form they contain 75% invert, 5% sucrose and 20% wheat-derived glucose. They are all 95% readily fermentable ... and with extract values between 321.5 L°/Kg and 326.5 L°/Kg

And this is what I wanted to put it in (Beersmith):

Having the "real stuff" in the recipe builder makes it much easier to figure what I should expect from home-made stuff.

Get it?

[Eric]

Use Graham's Beer Engine and select "Sugar Invert No. 3 Solid.

Yes, I know, I should stay out or stick to child minding 16-month-olds as an excuse to be a magnitude out in my answers.
Back on grandchild sitting duties tomorrow, so then please avoid asking any sensible questions.