I brewed a stout, but split in to two batches.
20l in FV and then fermented as normal. Decanted 10l in to bottles before adding vanilla to the FV to flavour the final 9l.
Bottled the batches about 1 week apart.
Original stout is now tasting sour (didn’t initially)
Vanilla stout is fine
I cleaned (fairy liquid), sterilised (sodium percarbonate) and sanitised (starsan) the bottles. I’d be surprised if the bottles are not clean but it is possible.
The reason I’m surprised and keen for advice is that the stout was not sour until recently, and I’m quite confused why half the batch is fine but the other half is not.
Any ideas?
Thank you in advance.
Half batch sour half ok
Half batch sour half ok
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Re: Half batch sour half ok
Sodium percarbonate is not a steriliser it is a cleaning agent. I don't understand the bit about bottling one week apart ?
Perhaps the vanilla is masking the sourness
Perhaps the vanilla is masking the sourness
Last edited by IPA on Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip
It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)
Be who you are
Because those that mind don't matter
And those that matter don't mind
Re: Half batch sour half ok
Can I confirm this back to you..
Brewed a stout, but split in to two batches.
20l in FV fermented as normal.
After fermentation, bottled 10l.
This first bottling soured over time.
Then added vanilla to the FV to flavour the remainder.
Bottled a week later. These have NOT soured.
If that's the case....
I think you are right to think this an infection. At a very low dose it would take time to develop.
Surprisingly (and why I confirmed your steps) this was more likely IMO in the latter bottling.
Is there a tap or tube (something other than bottles) that may have caused it? Caps?
Has it started to develop in the Vanilla?
What was different about the two bottlings?
Perhaps the first bottling / subsequent cleaning washed out the infection?
Brewed a stout, but split in to two batches.
20l in FV fermented as normal.
After fermentation, bottled 10l.
This first bottling soured over time.
Then added vanilla to the FV to flavour the remainder.
Bottled a week later. These have NOT soured.
If that's the case....
I think you are right to think this an infection. At a very low dose it would take time to develop.
Surprisingly (and why I confirmed your steps) this was more likely IMO in the latter bottling.
Is there a tap or tube (something other than bottles) that may have caused it? Caps?
Has it started to develop in the Vanilla?
What was different about the two bottlings?
Perhaps the first bottling / subsequent cleaning washed out the infection?
Half batch sour half ok
What you’ve listed above is accurate on steps.MashBag wrote:Can I confirm this back to you..
Brewed a stout, but split in to two batches.
20l in FV fermented as normal.
After fermentation, bottled 10l.
This first bottling soured over time.
Then added vanilla to the FV to flavour the remainder.
Bottled a week later. These have NOT soured.
If that's the case....
I think you are right to think this an infection. At a very low dose it would take time to develop.
Surprisingly (and why I confirmed your steps) this was more likely IMO in the latter bottling.
Is there a tap or tube (something other than bottles) that may have caused it? Caps?
Has it started to develop in the Vanilla?
What was different about the two bottlings?
Perhaps the first bottling / subsequent cleaning washed out the infection?
The aspect I find weird is the plain stout has soured not the later bottled vanilla version. It’s about 6 weeks since I bottled.
Vanilla is not masking it as it’s a light background flavour.
I bottle from a stainless FV tap running very slow as it’s new and no bottling tubes fit and I’m not keen on siphons.
It could be coincidence but maybe my bottles used for the first stout are just are not clean enough, even though I use cleaning agents and a bottle brush. They are quite old now.
Thank you for your feedback.
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Re: Half batch sour half ok
What do you use/recommend?IPA wrote:Sodium percarbonate is not a steriliser it is a cleaning agent. I don't understand the bit about bottling one week apart ?
Perhaps the vanilla is masking the sourness
It says it’s a steriliser, but of course not how effective it is at sterilising.
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Re: Half batch sour half ok
Is there any chance there was 'something' in the tap?
To be honest I am not keen on taps/valves. They are a good opportunity for breaking / leaking / infection / more cleaning. No more than necessary. Syphons are infinitely better imo.
The front tap on my BM20 has been blanked off.
To be honest I am not keen on taps/valves. They are a good opportunity for breaking / leaking / infection / more cleaning. No more than necessary. Syphons are infinitely better imo.
The front tap on my BM20 has been blanked off.
Re: Half batch sour half ok
I guess it could be the tap. Is your thinking that the infection washed out during the bottling of the first batch, so was not present for the second batch?
The tap on the FV and the dump valve look good, although of course visual inspections only spot dirt. The tap on my Braumeister doesn’t look perfectly clean. The main areas where liquid exits are spotless but when the tap is removed and valve closed, some tiny edges are dirty.
I’m running a hot clean on the Braumeister (strangely with Grainfather cleaner) but it’s what I had available.
I’ll then decant that in to the stainless FV.
Will do the same with sodium percarbonate.
And I’ll clean all the bottles soon.
Thanks
The tap on the FV and the dump valve look good, although of course visual inspections only spot dirt. The tap on my Braumeister doesn’t look perfectly clean. The main areas where liquid exits are spotless but when the tap is removed and valve closed, some tiny edges are dirty.
I’m running a hot clean on the Braumeister (strangely with Grainfather cleaner) but it’s what I had available.
I’ll then decant that in to the stainless FV.
Will do the same with sodium percarbonate.
And I’ll clean all the bottles soon.
Thanks
Using Tapatalk
Re: Half batch sour half ok
Boiling the BM is as good as anything for sterilization. Just be sure to cover elements.
Truck wash (caustic TFR) a bog brush and a stainless scrubby are the best for cleaning a BM IMO.
Truck wash (caustic TFR) a bog brush and a stainless scrubby are the best for cleaning a BM IMO.
Re: Half batch sour half ok
Love it ref the bog brush. Thinking about it, the fancy brushes are not much differentMashBag wrote:Boiling the BM is as good as anything for sterilization. Just be sure to cover elements.
Truck wash (caustic TFR) a bog brush and a stainless scrubby are the best for cleaning a BM IMO.
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Re: Half batch sour half ok
I'd be inclined to take all your taps apart (as much as they can). You may be surprised how much crud they accumulate even after a rinse through cleaning.
Re: Half batch sour half ok
Needs to be a new one.. Just say'nmbarn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:48 pmLove it ref the bog brush. Thinking about it, the fancy brushes are not much differentMashBag wrote:Boiling the BM is as good as anything for sterilization. Just be sure to cover elements.
Truck wash (caustic TFR) a bog brush and a stainless scrubby are the best for cleaning a BM IMO.