Aerator paddle?

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PeeBee
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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by PeeBee » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:55 am

MashBag wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:56 am
Hmm. I have a feeling there's are some facts lurking about in here for dried yeasts. ...
There's also thread hi-jackers lurking about here! Told you I was good (sorry, I mean "bad") at it. Taken me eons to get this subject going though.

But to make amends: I do like them "aerator paddles" (boilie making whisks); for beery uses other than "aerating" of course!

But on the subject of dried yeasts: The advise to use double the quantity of yeast for cool fermented lagers, yet still thrash the wort to get oxygen in? Seems like wearing a belt and braces to me.

Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... V1bWc/view

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by MashBag » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:37 pm

Just read the fermentis instructions.

"Sprinkle into wort"

No mention of aerobicification.

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by PeeBee » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:56 pm

I finished reading that article I posted earlier. It does appear to be a "head screwed on" article, although towards the end it was drifting out of my "bo11ocks detector's" resolving mechanism (i.e. can I mentally cross-reference it with other stuff I've read - highly scientific :-? ). But it was then providing ammunition for whichever side you want to believe in.

I'll copy the conclusions here for those who can't be bothered to read the full article:
Know Your Options


So, the bottom line is that yeast does not generally respire, and it does not even need oxygen at all to survive and grow. Yeast does, however, need lipids to build cell membranes and in their absence will readily consume oxygen for their synthesis.

Aerating your wort may solve some fermentation problems, but remember that if you’re pitching a fresh, healthy yeast culture of the optimal size, aeration is usually not essential and may even be undesirable in certain cases. Most important, the level of dissolved oxygen necessary in wort to produce the best beer depends on the strain of yeast being used, its viability, the pitching rate, and the style of beer being made.
The final sentence might be one of those "cover me butt" affairs?

Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... V1bWc/view

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MashBag
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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by MashBag » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:17 pm

Hardly a "conclusion" 😁😁

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by PeeBee » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:40 pm

MashBag wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:17 pm
Hardly a "conclusion" 😁😁
A bit woolly?
07ace8310c35169ba45101d608ca47bc.jpg
07ace8310c35169ba45101d608ca47bc.jpg (20.38 KiB) Viewed 170 times
Bit like my head. But leaves space for our conclusions.

Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... V1bWc/view

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by vacant » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:30 pm

Lallemand say their Nottingham Dried Yeast doesn't need aerating so I'll reserve the splashy bit for when I'm using (e.g.) a Proper Job starter.

PDF - last sentence

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by Jocky » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:37 pm

MashBag wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:37 pm
Just read the fermentis instructions.

"Sprinkle into wort"

No mention of aerobicification.
Indeed.

Fermentis say:
“ We don’t recommend aerating the wort in normal conditions. The dry yeast has been produced and dried with a specific know-how of the Lesaffre Group, in order to maximize the Ergosterols content of the cells. This allows the yeast to grow/multiply and ferment well.However, you could aerate the wort in particular cases, for example if you recycle the yeast. There is no difference (for the O2) between Ale and Lager”

https://fermentis.com/en/knowledge-center/qanda/


Lallemand say:

“Aeration is not required for the first pitch”

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/uni ... entations/


If you’re pitching liquid yeast (aside from kviek yeasts) or re pitching yeast from a previous batch then aeration is essential. Dry yeast does not need aeration, just sprinkle it on wort or rehydrate it in sterile water.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by MashBag » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:55 pm

I am real pleased I have other uses for this paddle.

Not going to bother aerating my sprinkles.

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by WalesAles » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:21 pm

Aerification.

WA

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by PeeBee » Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:03 pm

Jocky wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:37 pm
... If you’re pitching liquid yeast (aside from kviek yeasts) or re pitching yeast from a previous batch then aeration is essential. Dry yeast does not need aeration, just sprinkle it on wort or rehydrate it in sterile water.
That is wrong! However, if you're not confident how well your starter performed, it's best to assume it is "right".

Yeast grown in a good air supply (constantly stirred and stoppered with a very gas porous plug - like the specially created foam stoppers or cotton wool at a push) will store any surplus sterols they create for later, just like yeast being prepared for drying.

But you do have to be very confident with your yeast starters. The following is a recent build I did, but I got too impatient settling it out and lost about 20% of the created yeast cells (I didn't actually "lose" them, I suspected something was amiss and settled out the remaining yeast for another 18 hours before adding it to the starter for the next brew - same yeast, in fact the second starter was created from the over build planned in the first):
1889 Morrell's Bitter IV.JPG
1889 Morrell's Bitter IV.JPG (38.95 KiB) Viewed 143 times
Fortunately this was in the 70L fermenter and therefore oxygenated. But fermentation was slow to start and overall very sedate (6 days, for me that is sedate). The other very similar beer was in the 25L fermenter and NOT oxygenated and the starter barely decanted (plus it received the "lost" cells from the first beer):
1880 Simond's Bitter VI.JPG
1880 Simond's Bitter VI.JPG (37.49 KiB) Viewed 143 times
Traces look rougher because it comes from a normal Tilt hydrometer (the first was from a Tilt PRO 8) ). Scales about the same. It starts quicker and finishes much quicker (within 3 days). It finishes "high" because I was manipulating the mash and fermentation to make that happen. Remember, the second brew was NOT oxygenated/aerated.

Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... V1bWc/view

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by PeeBee » Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:15 pm

Oops, sorry, I've already posted those graphs. If I'd remembered I'd have just put in the link.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=80619&start=15#p860389

Ah well, the narrative is different.

Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... V1bWc/view

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by PeeBee » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:07 pm

MashBag wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:28 pm
Hmm. That's made me think. Did it affect the taste.. Or the length of fermentation? ...
That earlier post of mine (with the graphs) probably answers your second query (i.e. no, it doesn't have to affect length of fermentation!). As for the first query, I'd quickly stop doing it if I thought I could detect a negative effect on taste; but the examples above wont be an example 'cos they're not ready yet and were slightly different (manipulated attenuation and one had "amber malt" in the grist).

Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... V1bWc/view

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by MashBag » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:41 pm

Paddle arrived today.

Superb. Will aerate easily. Will mix any food /fruit or pulp in a bucket. Will also spray wort fecking miles..

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by YeastWhisperer » Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:46 pm

Do you use silicone or plastic tubing to cast-out wort into your fermentation vessel? Do you have an old racking cane that is no longer in use or have a section of unused copper or acrylic tubing? If you so, you can make an inline aerator that is based on Bernoulli's principle. I have been using this type of aerator since the 90s and it is highly effective. While my current inline aerator is fashioned from a section 1/2" aryclic tubing with an inside diameter of 1/4" (it fits snugly into 3/8" silicone tubing), here is a photo of an old inline aerator that I made using a section of broken racking cane:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/iEDSfAQ.jpg[/img}

It is important that the inside diameter of the acrylic or copper tubing selected to make the aerator is smaller than the inside diameter of the silicone or other flexible tubing used to cast-out of one's kettle. What this reduction in diameter does is cause an increase in fluid speed through the aerator, which, in turn, causes a reduction in static pressure, resulting in air being drawn through the holes and mixing with the wort.

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Re: Aerator paddle?

Post by MashBag » Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:16 pm

"Inline" might be a problem... The beer isn't going anywhere? But a very good idea if it was.

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