NO sparge technique?

[adm]

This isn't helpful to you, but I'm planning on doing a double no sparge beer over the Christmas hols this year ( I know - it's advance planning....) as I've read only good things about no sparge.

I'm going to do a slack mash for a paleish ale, then let that drain out, then heat it up to strike temp and use the result as the mash liquor for a second mash with a bit more colour. It'll take me a while to work out the volume calculations though! Once it's done, I'll let it ferment then sit in secondary for 9 months or so. Planned drinking.....Christmas 2010!

[simple one]

No sparge technique is great if you have a big fat wallet and a deep mash tun!

I think the difference in taste can be made up better in other ways though.

[Scooby]

No sparge technique is great if you have a big fat wallet and a deep mash tun!

I think the difference in taste can be made up better in other ways though.

To be fair Deebee is doing a 12l batch so his tun is plenty big enough and he has other motives to try the technique.

Regarding cost 30-50% extra grain on a full 23l batch is no more than £2.00........ A bottle from the super market!

Have you done a no sparge batch? What was the difference in taste, and how can it be made up in better ways?

[simple one]

Ok I agree cost doesn't really come in to it, unless your tight, like me. And I am not saying not to do it.

I have done a no sparge. It was ok. But just like Deebee I did it as a beginner, so it was masked by all the other errors in my brewing process, and never had the experience to compare it to other homebrews I had made.

What I am saying is for Deebee i would reccomend he start by getting the basics all on the ball. The sparge correct, water treatment spot on, learning how factor hop additions properly, gaining a rapid cool, temperature control of the ferment, pitching correct yeast and the right amounts, etc... So when he does do a no sparge method he will reap the benifits of this method.

No sparge isn't really an alternative to sparging normally to a beginner IMO, and thats what I feel is the issue here. The first sparge he has had was a shocker. And he is looking to eliminate it from his brewing process. Its not really that much faster or easier once you know what your doing (depending on individual method). And really its only benifit is to get that potentially maltier flavour.

Although its still going to make a good beer. I just think he could be spending his time better learning other things.

I may be completely wrong and often am! And I hope I don't come across as an arrogant twosser.

[Scooby]

And I hope I don't come across as an arrogant twosser.

Not at all. it's easy to make claims but not give evidence to back them up, and to say there are better ways and not give them. I'm interested in the results Deebee gets and was trying to find out your experience.

I think you have a valid point regarding getting the grounding in brewing first (I was responding only to the question and not taking into account experience or lack of it) but what the heck, nothing ventured nothing gained. I say if you fancy doing something get stuck in, because if I'm anything to go by when you have achieved/mastered the list of things you mentioned you'll have forgotten what it was you wanted to do

[Deebee]

Slight misunderstanding here.

this was not my first sparge. It was the first one that gt stuck andwhy that is i have no idea.

Other than that, the brew is doing very nicely. Its dropped from start OG of 1054 to 1020 in a couple of days and tastes bitter yet fruity. A little cloudy but this i guess is due to there being so much activity.

The water in Kristiansund where i live is not chemically treated, infact it is treated with Uv after the final filtration and is tested as one of the top 5 waters in europe and i beloeve the best in Norway. when i was home in july ( essex) the water tasted thick and to be honet i bought bottled ... eve that was no as good as here:)

I do need t learn beersmith though!struggling a bit there .

I will be doing a normal brew at shorter length next time. All being cosidered sparging 10-12 liters of water is not so ime conduming and a 14 liter brew takes a lot less time to boil than 25.

Arrogant, not at all Simple one. I appreciate your thoughts.

[Scooby]

There can't be many people that haven't experience a stuck mash, and nearly as many who don't know why

I stayed in a small cottage in the Scottish highlands that was quite remote, the water was from a spring and had a Uv treatment thingy in the cupboard, it was the best water I've tasted, a few drops in a Malt was like nothing else

[subsub]

I have to do no sparge on my brews at the moment as I'm liberating the malt from my own brewery in lieu of wages. It produces excellent beer but is inefficient to say the least. I generally make a barley wine, an esb and a best out of mine. My home setup however, does include a 156L mashtun

[Aleman]

Can I just point out that the correct No Sparge technique, is to use a Normal Liquor To Grist Ratio and not a thin mash. Then all you do is to drain the mash tun down, dilute the sweet wort in the boiler to your desired preboil gravity, and use that.

To help you with your calculations you can generally expect a wort of 1.075 when you use 2.5L/Kg, and we found we got 1.092(~) using 2L/Kg

Running these figures as a quick calculation

Assuming a 5Kg grist with 2L per kilo, you should loose about 5L to grain absorption leaving you with 5L of Wort at 1.090. Diluting that by half will give you 10L or 1.045 wort.

Same figures with 2.5L/kg gives 7.5L at at 1.075 adding 5L will give you 12.5L of 1.045 wort

Of course you also have to factor in your boil off which is around 15% for most home brewers so you then need to add an additional 15% liquor to the boiler to account for this.

Of course this does not prevent a stuck mash, you can get just as slow run off from a no sparge as you do from a batch/fly sparge . . . I did a Pre Pro CAP last year that I abandoned sparging when I had collected just 20L in Three Hours . . . . I should have had 90L+ in 45 minutes . . . diluted the wort to a sensible gravity, adjusted the hop rate, and accepted my 'loss'.

As for formulating a no sparge recipe I work on a 50% efficiency, and generally exceed that hitting 60-65% normally

[oblivious]

I have done it for a few big beer that i did not have the time or space to boil down two massive running or fermentor space to brew a additional beer with the second running

Here are two examples

Dutch courage: Russian Imperial Stout

Copperface Jack Barelywine