Irish Moss . vs . Protofloc

[critch]

i use protofloc granules@10g per bbl ,or 3 protofloc tabs per bbl, works fine for me!

as far as i knew theyre both seaweed based....

[Blackjack]

BUT...with irish moss the yeast settles all nice in a cake at the bottom of the FV, especially using protofloc powder it floculates into large loose clumpy lumps that float about on top or roll round the bottom.

It is a little beggar to skim all the lumps and inevitably I get more carry over when I siphon off to the barrel if I use protofloc.

Hmmm . . .Could I suggest that you are overdosing with the protofloc. I was at Wibblers brewery last weekend and we only used 2 tablets in 2 BBL of 1.105 Barley wine (Look out for Wibblers Wobbly Wabbit at the winter festivals this year and next). The correct dosage for Murphys Protofloc (When I got mine) was 1-4g per hectaliter (1.00L) and as a tablet is about 2g, means that 1/4 of a tablet is all that is required for a 'normal' batch of beer. . . . With my session beers I actually aim for slightly less than this and it works very well, no problems with clumpy break material/yeast in the FV

That seems like an excellent answer, and since I have an order on its way from BB and they don't stock Irish moss i will try just using a tiny bit of protofloc.
JP

[boingy]

I've seen no differences in the FV between IM and PF but I do brew 40 litres at a time so my PF overdoes is not as great.
The difference you do see is in the amount of trub in the bottom of the boiler. With PF I get a huge amount more trub and it resembles an alien landscape. Does this improve the final beer? No idea!

[Capped]

I just chuck a full tablet in,as I suspect most do. Next brew I'm gonna chuck a quarter of one in to see what happens. When I've run out I'm gonna use up me tub of IM (rehydrated before use of course - that definitely does improve matters - to the point where,to me at least,it's performance is indistinguishable to a full Protofloc tab).

[Bigveees]

Thanks for the response (mostly).
I'm going to have to agree with the comments suggesting it does have an effect on the yeast! Especially if you throw a whole tablet into a 24L batch of beer. Its seems to have dropped the so4 yeast in my current brew out of suspension and has pretty much made it stick now at 1020, so I'm having to give it a rousing every few hours to try and get it to complete.

I'll adjust the PF dosage and monitor the results!

[Dr. Dextrin]

I use 1/4 Protafloc tablet in a 25l brew and as far as I can tell it does exactly the same thing as Irish moss does. Result: clear beer.

But I can't really be bothered with storing the other 3/4 of each tablet because they don't break cleanly and you need to keep all the little bits in a plastic bag or something. Also, Irish moss is much more widely available, so I'm going back to it once my Protafloc stock is used up.

In my view, Protafloc is just packaging up something that doesn't really need packaging up. It may appeal if you like to drink bottled water.

[Blackjack]

Thanks for the response (mostly).
I'm going to have to agree with the comments suggesting it does have an effect on the yeast! Especially if you throw a whole tablet into a 24L batch of beer. Its seems to have dropped the so4 yeast in my current brew out of suspension and has pretty much made it stick now at 1020, so I'm having to give it a rousing every few hours to try and get it to complete.

I'll adjust the PF dosage and monitor the results!

Again thank you!, this makes sense, the brew on which i recently used protofloc has now gone berserk fermenting after racking into a pb.

If I summarise the recent posts. Protofloc is great!. One tablet is too much for 5 gals. ( 23lts.)!. It does end up floculating the yeast.! It can constipate the ferment which can go haywire after racking.

1/4 or 1/2 a tablet in 5 gal or 25lts ( yes Chris X-1, I know 25 lt is not 5 gal.!) will produce a much gentler "less scouring" and better overall effect.?

[Gricey]

Dont want to rock the boat but I've never had protafloc affect my FG, in fact all my beers have ended up highly attenuated, but I only put it in the kettle, not done the FV.

Gricey

[Aleman]

<Random Hypothesis Alert>

The issue is that by putting too much into the copper, and it not getting filtered properly through the hops means that it ends up in the FV . . . . When the yeast get to work the change in pH passes the iso electric point of the carrageenan causing it to flocculate with itself . . . where upon it traps CO2 and becomes this floating cauliflower like jelly mass in the FV.

</Random Hypothesis Alert>

Are we certain that Whirlfloc is the same as Protofloc? (I recall a discussion about this in the past, which is why I stated the dosage instructions for Murphys Protofloc tablets . . .. I can't find anything on the Murphys website about whirlfloc so I am assuming that it is an equivalent product.

Murphy FAQ on Copper Finings

[Capped]

I'm gonna go back to my Irish Moss. Mix a spoonful with cold water,give it ten minutes and chuck in the boiler. Voila!- clear beer. This Protafloc malarkey is all getting too technical for me now and I really can't be doing with fretting about whether I've put a millionth of a gramme too much or too little in !

[trucker5774]

I have always added irish moss or protafloc at the 10 to 15 minute stage. I read on a few posts (American I think) that they added it for the full boil. Was this just an error, or has anyone done it? Does it work/make a difference?

[crookedeyeboy]

You shouldnt add either for all of the boil as its a waste of time. The carageenan is there to create protein flocs, if you put it in for over an hour it will create the flocs and then they will break up again due to the action of the boiling liquid. Logical really.

[EoinMag]

I'm gonna go back to my Irish Moss. Mix a spoonful with cold water,give it ten minutes and chuck in the boiler. Voila!- clear beer. This Protafloc malarkey is all getting too technical for me now and I really can't be doing with fretting about whether I've put a millionth of a gramme too much or too little in !

Follow the instructions for dosage on the box. it works better than Irish moss is the general consensus, so why would you not use it knowing that?

Don't panic about the clumpiness of the yeast, I've still harvested the same yeast and pitched it on other brews with no issue, so it's just a visual thing, nothing to worry about. Although I probably lose a little more beer than if I did have a tight compact yeast cake.

[Bigveees]

We seem to have a clear winner in the voting, but a couple of people from early on may need to vote again, due to the short-term withdrawl of this post!

[Graham]

Just to be as controversial as Wheeler likes to be...

A bit of copying and pasting:


Do not grossly overdo the application of copper finings. Overdoing it will cause an excessive quantity of loose, fluffy, unstable sediment that will increase wort wastage. This is particularly apparent with the refined finings, whereby some home brewers simply throw in a complete tablet rather than divide it or add an appropriate measured weight. This is probably done in the belief that more is better, and on the face of it this misplaced generosity would seem justified, because indeed half-a-ton of gunk appears to be produced. Unfortunately this additional gunk is not break material, but is caused by the finings itself. The electrostatic charge of the finings is pushing the fining molecules apart, and forcing them and the break attracted to them, to become a loose, fluffy suspension. Basically, the same amount of trub takes up more volume, increasing wort losses. Optimal fining level is when maximum clarity is achieved with minimum sediment volume; i.e., the sediment is compact and firm, but not fluffy. Unfortunately the optimum varies from beer to beer and circumstance to circumstance. Stronger beers, or at least beers with higher levels of grist in the mash tun, contain more protein and require higher levels of fining material.