Do high alpha acid hops work for you?

[Manx Guy]

think youll find its the high cohumulone levels.just brewed with stella, amazing pineapple/ tropical fruit flavour. total stinging evil bitterness. now ive got a lot of customers who love this sort of thing, so itll sell and its still full of yeast so itll mellow by the time its dropped, but by fek its powerfull , seing i hardly bloody added any hops(officially 20 ibus in a 4.1 beer!) i and what i did i late and dry hopped with nearly 9/10ths of em!

do use lots of 'em, normally at flame out though!

Intersting point, what efect does cohumulone % have on th eprofielof a hop and its bittering (or perceived bitterness) potential?

I used Willemette in a single hop brew and I really dont like the bitterness and flavour, could it be due to cohumulone?

Watching this thread with interest...



Guy

[Kev888]

For years theres been a following for the idea that high cohumulone hops impart a harsher bittering flavour than low cohumulone (traditionally noble) hops. I believed this for years too, and maybe i still do, but some of the modern dual purpose varieties seem to cast doubt as they're fairly high in it yet also good for flavour without such harshness, so I'm not sure where it leaves us; dithering in my case. Perhaps its more a case of 'can' be harsh rather than 'have to' be.

I don't really have a problem with high IBUs but I do prefer less harshness - so yes, I try to brew with more but lower AA hops and I have also been trying First Wort Hopping over recent months. With more hops I find more and better rounded flavour/aroma for similar IBUs, which may be mostly what I'm liking - perhaps partly due to having a higher ratio of beta to alpha acids. That flavour doesn't necessarily work with stouts, for example though, so I still use mostly higher AA hops with those and it seems quite fitting there.

Cheers
Kev

[simple one]

That video is a good find. A 50C steep anyone?

It's got me thinking.

[Rick_UK]

I've been experimenting with high alpha hops such as magnum, target and chinook for bittering vs the traditional challenger, fuggles and goldings and can honestly say the difference is negligable. Well to my taste buds anyway!

I think any discussion on percieved differences in flavour or bitterness is fraught by individual differences in taste sensitivity. If you notice a big difference then stick to using more low alpha trad hops. If like me you notice little or no difference then you may as well take advantage of the higher alpha varieties.

Thats my tuppence worth anyhow!

Rick

[Capn Ahab]

Surely the point with this whole thread is that if you're doing a 1.050 beer with only 36 ibu that's only 0.72 gu/bu and so probably not a US style. If you're trying to make an English bitter or pale, USE ENGLISH HOPS. The high alpha hops are perfect for IPA's and US styles. It is a good idea to get a handle on the effect of cohumulone though as it has an effect on balance.

FWIW I think citra has limited use as a bittering hop. Just cos it's high alpha, don't mean it's a bittering hop.

[charliefarley]

if you're doing a 1.050 beer with only 36 ibu that's only 0.72 gu/bu and so probably not a US style.

There a problem with doing a less bitter pale with modern fruity hops?

It's a bit boring following all the rules.

[Capn Ahab]

if you're doing a 1.050 beer with only 36 ibu that's only 0.72 gu/bu and so probably not a US style.

There a problem with doing a less bitter pale with modern fruity hops?

It's a bit boring following all the rules.

There are exceptions to every rule, obviously. Try them out and see what works for you, but en generale English hops (and styrians) are used in the best English beers.

Saying that, I don't think I was that clear in what I said. Basically super high
alpha US hops are made for hop monster US styles (not all US beers though - eg American wheat) and imo there is no reason to use them for bittering in a standard British pale; in fact it will mess up the balance and not give the right flavour profile.

Rulebreakers are great and I'll bet some top English pales use new world hops but it's harder to pull off and still have the right balance. In short if you wanna try out huge characterful hops, make a huge characterful beer! Something along the lines of 1.060. - 1.011 and 70 ibu with a shiteload of late hops.

As for citra, there are plenty of decidedly mediocre single hop pales on the British market that are missing the point of what makes a beer exciting.

[critch]

if you're doing a 1.050 beer with only 36 ibu that's only 0.72 gu/bu and so probably not a US style.

There a problem with doing a less bitter pale with modern fruity hops?

not in my book

it's a bit boring following all the rules.

damn tooting!

new english varietals are being developed by farams at the minute, theyre going to be rather american in their style from what ive been told, in fact some where developed in the 50's, but rejected due to them having too strong a flavour....

[Capn Ahab]

It's a bit boring following all the rules.

BTW they're not rules, just what the top pros take into consideration when designing their beers.

[Capn Ahab]

new english varietals are being developed by faramls at the minute, theyre going to be rather american in their style from what ive been told, in fact some where developed in the 50's, but rejected due to them having too strong a flavour....

Like US hops but 'less so'? I won't hold my breath...

[charliefarley]

Why less so? And why the pessimism?

[charliefarley]

I've made loads of decent session ales with new world hops at @4% and 0.75 bu/gu

Not sure what style this makes it? Not sure I care.

[Capn Ahab]

Why less so? And why the pessimism?

Haha said in jest as a reference critch made in another post. And it's not pessimism, I just think there are plenty of good hops available already and I don't buy into the idea that new automatically equals good in any sphere. Ergo I'll wait and see but I'm not gonna cream my pants until the results merit it.

[Capn Ahab]

I've made loads of decent session ales with new world hops at @4% and 0.75 bu/gu

Not sure what style this makes it? Not sure I care.

Furry muff, you're the one that drinks them, so make them to your taste and styles be damned. However new world hops in general are one thing but the original thread was about high alpha hops specifically.

[roonikins]

i started brewing in the early 70s and looking back i can't believe how crap the hops that you got then were. i,d think twice about putting them on the compost heap now never mind in me brews and yes you had to pile them to taste them lol