Selling your brews!

[DerbyshireNick]

I would have thought "for your own consumption" would include other members of your household.

Interesting that giving a bottle to your mate at work is considered illegal.

does that mean making a cake and taking it into work is illegal too do these rules only apply to alcohol duty rather than vat?

I don't think this shocking revelation will change my habits but good to know the facts.

[gregorach]

IIRC, the term used is "domestic use". I would assume that family and any guests in your own home would be covered. I think it's one of those things where the actual law is slightly unclear, and nobody's ever actually ended up in court to clarify it. Lets just say I'm not about to lose any sleep over pouring a few pints for my mates when they pop round...

[critch]

cant see the revenue going after even the most enthusiastic of home brewer

although i do know of one case where it happened, john smith the guy behind hart brewery in preston was arrested years ago for selling his beer brewed in the garage(he had a 2 barrel kit) he sold a few firkins and a hundred litres of wine to some coppers once and got done for quite a few quid, the revenue man who took him to court ended up a good mate and helped him set up his legal micro in little eccleston, he now brews in preston .hes as mad as a box of frogs and an absolute diamond geezer, love his ice maiden beer

[Horatio]

I spent a while on ther phone to HMRC this afternoon to clarify a few things I needed to know. I asked about donating beer to a charity to be offered as a raffle prize (I knew full well it was not okay to do this) and was told that there are only two exemptions, for reasearch or scientific testing and for personal comsumption on my own premises. I then asked if I could let my missus drink it and the robot on the end of the phone said, "for personal comsuption on your own premises"! I then asked about the running brewing courses issue and was told to write in with that one! And this was from one of thier duty "experts" as I had already spoken to their VAT "expert"! He did in fairness say that the law was not particularly clear in the guidance notes though, that is why he asked me to write in with the brewing course question. Clearly I had too much time on my hands at work today!

[Finlay]

It seems that there are many obstacles in progressing from homebrewing to selling your beer. I would be interested in any views from people who have made that jump but are not yet brewing for a primary income; for instance what sort of difficulties are involved with passing inspections from the Environmental Health? It seems a big jump to make starting down the registered brewer route, when one can't afford the investment to scale up brewing to the required level to justify the incidental costs (for example the premesis required to comply with environmental health - will part of a garage do?)

Anyone know how to square that circle without spending thousands?

[critch]

(for example the premesis required to comply with environmental health - will part of a garage do?)

prospect brewery from standish ran out of patsy's mum in laws garage for years. it was on that james may/ oz clark beer program the littlest comercial in the country ran out of a converted toilet in the blokes garage(wc brewery chester)

[DemonBrew]

Ha!
Mine is in a converted toilet though is a 'proper' brewery, enviro's have been round and everythning

Should see how little space I've got as well!

[boingy]

Ha!
Mine is in a converted toilet though is a 'proper' brewery, enviro's have been round and everythning

Should see how little space I've got as well!

I don't think I want to know how you cool your wort.

[jat147]

The problem with brewing in a garage is that you need to get permission for a change of use , from a domestic use to a commercial one. That is particularly hard to secure because of them lovely smells we make whilst boiling, which can be offensive to some strange folk
You can submit plans to remove said odour, but the hardware can cost a considerable amount. I know of a brewer who got permission after compiling such plans through 2 professional agencies - BUT the permission was only for 12 months, after which time the planning dept would review.
He didn't go ahead on that basis. Better to get a commercial location to start with I'd think.

[oz11]

The Tonbridge Brewer brews quite happily in his garage, and a cracking little set up it is too, a Porter installation I believe

[Finlay]

Thanks' for all of the comments. I wonder how much 'conversion' one needs to do to satisfy environmental health, for example can you cordon off an area, or do you need to completely segregate an area with partitioning etc. My garage has an open rafter roof which is difficult to clean. Would I need to make a ceiling? My houses waste water goes into a shared private cesspit. Does that mean I only need to negotiate with my neighbours regarding effluent disposal? I suppose a conversation with the relevant governemtn dept. may clear some of this up, but it's very useful to hear of other small/tiny breweries and thier locations!

[Blackaddler]

From what I've heard, it's down to individual inspectors. Some have more common sense than others, it seems.

[Scooby]

From what I've heard, it's down to individual inspectors. Some have more common sense than others, it seems.

Yep, much like building inspectors and like them, what they stipulate seems to vary from council to council.

They may insist on anti bacterial floor paint, lined or tiled ceiling/walls etc as one case I know of. And yet a local micro runs out of an old barn where most of the floor is compacted earth.
The problem is that beer, and alcohol I believe, is classed as 'food' under the food hygiene legislation and should be protected from contamination in the same ways as food.
Obviously to brewers there's a world of difference between beer and the way you make it than say chicken and the way that is processed and I guess not all inspectors appreciate that.

The problem with brewing in a garage is that you need to get permission for a change of use , from a domestic use to a commercial one.

You'll find that if the brewery is deemed 'portable' and I guess most of the units home brewers have in the garage are, then that does not apply, not withstanding the comments above regarding councils and inspectors.

I guess it really depends on if you just want to sell a cask/bottles now and again and remain a 'hobby brewer' or make a going concern of it, in which case it will no longer be a hobby.
If it's the former then I would just go ahead and do it, if you don't want to live dangerously register as a brewery which is relatively easy and inexpensive . Don't bother with the local authorities just let them find you.

If it's the latter there are loads more reasons not to do it than have been aired in this thread.

[jat147]

Don't bother with the local authorities just let them find you.

Yeah you could go down that route .... I think thats what they decided at 'Dale Farm'

[Scooby]

Don't bother with the local authorities just let them find you.

Yeah you could go down that route .... I think thats what they decided at 'Dale Farm'

Didn't know they were selling their brews.