Finings and dry hopping

[FUBAR]

Fubar - I use Kwikclear and swear by it, completely amazing, drops bright in 24 hours, undetectable and made from amongst other things gelatine, no fish guts. Still a bit of a problem for veggies though. My last bottling session (yesterday) was a culmination of a number of things. First copper finings (Protafloc granules, superb stuff), 1/2 hour wait for trub to settle, then drained into the FV through my hop sock covered copper manifold that captures a huge amount of trub but not all the cold break, need some for the yeast!

Fermented right out then crash cooled to 5c for 48 hours. Racked off to a keg containing Kwikclear left for 24 hours then racked again to bottling bucket containing priming syrup, bottled using a bottling cane to supress oxygentaion. Looked at them this morning already bright but not quite crystal, with a thin paint like layer appearing on the bottom of the bottle, suggests enough yeast pulled through for secondary fermentation. Fully expect crystal by tomorrow, leave for 2 weeks in the warm then refridgerate to ensure proper carbonation then into the cellar (14c) to await my impatient hands grabbing one. I will report back (subject to memory lapse) once I open one.

Went to the HB shop this afternoon and got some Kwik Clear and will have a go with that

It's hard to choose between swim bladder and pig skin with cattle bones

At least Kwik Clear does not smell like a fishmongers rubbish bin on a hot day

[darkonnis]

I recently put some finings in a guiness clone i did, despite the small amount of roast barley completely overpowering everything in the recipe (G.Wheeler didnt get that one right) it came up really well and i've just put it in a summer ale i've done and it cleared up brilliantly, i was very impressed. I think it was Kwik clear i used, not sure though as i haven't still got the box.

[Spud395]

Guinness is all about roast barley overpowering everything, you dont really get that from the nitro pub jobbie

[Scooby]

I recently put some finings in a guiness clone i did,

WHAT!!!!

[orlando]

Looked at them this morning already bright but not quite crystal,

They are now

[orlando]

I think it was Kwik clear i used, not sure though as i haven't still got the box.

Kwikclear comes in two little plastic bottles labelled A & B. A goes in first and is left for 1/2 hour to charge the particles then B is introduced to attract those particles and drag them to the bottom. If that rings a bell it's Kwikclear, brilliant stuff.

[Kev888]

+1 with you on sterile filtering, lots of good american micros coarse filter @10 micron with no ill effect on body or flavour,i do use fining on request, as thats what im set up for, if im brewing for myself i only use copper finings

Very interesting, thanks again Critch. Perhaps I'll try filtering with a 6-to-10 micron filter even if the aux finings work out then; I don't really object to adding them but I'd prefer not to. A bit of a pain, perhaps, but filtering shouldn't be too bad at a homebrew scale.

Cheers
kev

[orlando]

A single yeast cell is 5-10 microns in size (Yeast, page 17: White & Zainasheff) so you won't filter much of the yeast out but maybe that isn't the problem.you are looking to solve.

[Scooby]

A question for those who use kwik clear. Can you rack from primary to cornie, add kwik clear then after
conditioning and carbonation dispense without drawing sediment. In other words is the sediment solid
on the bottom of the keg or does it tend to be fluffy as isinglass can be. Cheers.

Edit: Brewdog filter through a 5-6micron filter, apparently this let enough yeast through to satisfy CAMRA that it
is still real ale. according to them sterile filtration is to 0.45microns. See Here

[orlando]

Don't have/use cornies so can't help I'm afraid.

[Scooby]

Maybe I could try it in primary, I don't like faffing with a secondary vessel unless I use one to condition
prior to bottling.

[Kev888]

A single yeast cell is 5-10 microns in size (Yeast, page 17: White & Zainasheff) so you won't filter much of the yeast out but maybe that isn't the problem.you are looking to solve.

Interesting yet again! I don't know exactly what the structure of the cloudiness is; from what Critch says, a 10micron filter must still be doing something useful so perhaps its removing bigger proteins and clumps of yeast cells rather than individual ones, in which case it may depend on how flocculant the yeast strain is. My other problem is that I don't know how much yeast I need to leave in for mopping-up/conditioning purposes as well as flavour..

This is something I've never really looked into the specifics of before - clearly some more research is needed! A brief look around suggests that flavour starts to get hit with filter sizes below around 1 or 0.5 micron and apparently some brewers use 0.3 or smaller to remove bacteria, which could explain why the process gets a bad rap on flavour and body.

Cheers
kev

[darkonnis]

I'd say that yeast isn't the problem per say. Its the big clumps that need getting rid of aswell as the proteins, I imagine as well that the yeast will be on the larger side of 5 - 10 microns because they develop hair as they start to finish, so maybe their overall size (with hair) stops them from getting through or makes them attach to other yeast and stops them from getting through.

Orlando, yes thats the one! I thought it was, very good stuff.
Scooby, It smelt of yeast, and i must say that is a smell I don't like in my pint. Or atleast not yeast more than anything else, came out fine though and though it taste like ash (roast barley, joy) the after taste is quite nice.
I just used some in a dry hopped summer ale i did and that taste fantastic.

[Scooby]

A single yeast cell is 5-10 microns in size (Yeast, page 17: White & Zainasheff) so you won't filter much of the yeast out but maybe that isn't the problem.you are looking to solve.

Interesting yet again! I don't know exactly what the structure of the cloudiness is; from what Critch says, a 10micron filter must still be doing something useful

A brief look around suggests that flavour starts to get hit with filter sizes below around 1 or 0.5 micron and apparently some brewers use 0.3 or smaller to remove bacteria, which could explain why the process gets a bad rap on flavour and body.

Cheers
kev

See my Brewdog link in the edit above for pics of their pre and post 5-6micron filtering.

[orlando]

A single yeast cell is 5-10 microns in size (Yeast, page 17: White & Zainasheff) so you won't filter much of the yeast out but maybe that isn't the problem.you are looking to solve.

A brief look around suggests that flavour starts to get hit with filter sizes below around 1 or 0.5 micron and apparently some brewers use 0.3 or smaller to remove bacteria, which could explain why the process gets a bad rap on flavour and body.

Cheers
kev

Yeast is 10 times bigger than bacteria so setting to filter this out may well impact on flavour. I will read around more too. As for "hairs" on yeast I don't know where Darkonnis has got that from. I've only seen drawings of yeast cells but none of these has "hairs". I would be very interested to know what their function was.