Effect of mashing with too much water

[Bibinimis]

As mentioned on 04/07/21 I use my ancient and resurrected (though with new tap and extra kettle lead to bypass the sensitive thermostat for a long boil) Electrim bin. I like the challenge of producing good beer with such worthless equipment. The brew with which I had difficulty maintaining the mash temp and which prompted me to experiment with the diluted one mentioned above ironically turned out be one of the best I have ever done and receives compliments from all who have sampled it. By contrast I would not offer anyone the one from the over diluted mash then combined with extract. Water treatment is clearly a vast scientific subject beyond my capabilities which lie in other directions. However the water used has remained constant in that I boil and mash with (hard) tap water and any top up is done with bottled still water.

[MashBag]

Perhaps is depends on the kit you are using.
3v perhaps it is more important?
Whereas in a GF or BM it does not matter?

I have a BM, & have used various volumes and TBH can't say I have noticed a difference.

Water treatment is equally important whatever equipment is used to brew and regardless of the brewer's opinion for or knowledge of water treatment.

Absolutely, in this case I was referring to volume, as opposed to treatment.

[Eric]

Yes, but altering volume (mash thickness) can also change the ratio of minerals supplied by the liquor while those from the malt are unchanged. This might or might not be beneficial, but whatever change there might be could be incorrectly assumed by the uninitiated to be due solely to liquor volume change.

Bibinimis, basic water treatment is more confusing than complicated science made worse by opinions rather than facts. Like any journey, real or metaphorical, if you are not familiar with your starting point you won't know which way to turn. Just start by learning what you can about what id in the water that comes out of your tap. Then take one step at a time.

[Bibinimis]

Yes, but altering volume (mash thickness) can also change the ratio of minerals supplied by the liquor while those from the malt are unchanged. This might or might not be beneficial, but whatever change there might be could be incorrectly assumed by the uninitiated to be due solely to liquor volume change.

Bibinimis, basic water treatment is more confusing than complicated science made worse by opinions rather than facts. Like any journey, real or metaphorical, if you are not familiar with your starting point you won't know which way to turn. Just start by learning what you can about what id in the water that comes out of your tap. Then take one step at a time.

Thanks and I established some time ago that the average ph level in my water supply is 7.39 but that's as far as I have got!

[MashBag]

Yes, but altering volume (mash thickness) can also change the ratio of minerals supplied by the liquor while those from the malt are unchanged. This might or might not be beneficial, but whatever change there might be could be incorrectly assumed by the uninitiated to be due solely to liquor volume change.

Yup. I see that.

Can we say then that the basic style/type of machine has no impact or affect to the water chemistry for a given recipe (run at with same liquor volume)?

[Eric]

Thanks and I established some time ago that the average ph level in my water supply is 7.39 but that's as far as I have got!

Great, a start.

My water direct from the tap can be around pH 5.8. It also has alkalinity of the order of 250 ppm as CaCO3.
An hour later its pH will be higher, 6 point something and its alkalinity will still be 250 ppm as CaCO3.
The next day a pH reading will be above 7 and the alkalinity will be unchanged.
Eventually, when CO2 dissolved in the water reaches equilibrium with that present in the atmosphere, pH will stabilise at 7 point something. It will remain unchanged if ambient temperature and atmospheric pressure are stable and alkalinity isn't

A pH measurement of untreated water is more a measure of dissolved CO2. Some brewing scholars can from such measurements advise the proportions of carbonate and bicarbonate, but as malted barley doesn't differentiate between those two, neither are of merit to a brewer. while the amount of alkalinity in brewing liquor is super critical.

[Eric]

Can we say then that the basic style/type of machine has no impact or affect to the water chemistry for a given recipe (run at with same liquor volume)?

Interesting question.

I will say that for a specific recipe brewed with equivalent water treatment in different equipment, the influence from the equipment will be less than that of the brewer.

Let's be fair. There is lots more at play in brewing than any of us know.

[Silver_Is_Money]

Let's be fair. There is lots more at play in brewing than any of us know.

Posts like this one make me wish there was a "Like" button on this forum. Great insight here!!!

[MashBag]

Interesting question.

It has puzzled me for a years.
When the GF was launched, I already had a BM.
To compare I did a gram accurate, side by side. Different beers. Since then, I have heard numerous newbies to the BM say they get different results with a recipe they brew regularly?

Since then we have seen numerous machines appearing, at both ends of the market and it does leave me wondering.

Let's be fair. There is lots more at play in brewing than any of us know.

Absolutely.

[Eric]

Thank you Silver, I take that as a great compliment.

MashBag, I cannot make experienced comment on differences between the many single pot vessels, mine is very simple and I've no thought to acquire a BM or GF nor imagine I'd pay that amount of money for an item of brewing equipment. I started brewing with simple gear, all grain was first done with an Electrim bin and a grain bag. I've always sparged using various evolving system, the last 5 years a self designed, digitally control fly sparge. The biggest advance probably was when using plastic equipment and the mash and boil were segregated, and the grain bag replaced by a false bottom, but advancement has always been my prime objective.

[MashBag]

advancement has always been my prime objective

Here here.

I started with 3 vessel system - a bucket, a cooler box and a Burco. A long time ago.

I will go out on a limb and say I probably have the most modified BM20 - 'advancement has always been my prime objective'