Decoction mash

[booldawg]

I've been reading a little bit on the net about this. The theory hasnt totally sunk in yet and most the text is American with heat quoted in Fahrenheit and quantities in quarts.

I'm making a lager style ale with Lager malt. Would Decoction mashing impove the taste and clarity via the protein break? Is it a widely used method and are the benefits worth it?

[Barley Water]

I make alot of German beer and do a fair number of lagers and I vote "yes", decoction mashing is worth it. You will find first of all that your efficiency will go up a little bit but I don't really care about that. I do it for two reasons (three if you count a cereal mash as a decoction):

1- I my opinion you set yourself for a better mouthfeel by doing a decoction. I can't explain why (maybe someone with more knowlege than me will chime in) but it really makes for a better beer, I have really had good luck with Weizens doing decoction mashing.

2- You develop malliard reactions which makes for the nice toasty taste in a beer like a Munich Dunkel. Some will argue that you can duplicate this effect by adding Munich malt in the grist (and you see it in formulation all the time) but I think a decocton works better. Anyway, you end up with a malty beer which is dry at the same time, very nice in my opinion.

3- If you want to call a ceral mash a sort of decoction, it allows the starches to be gelantinzed when using adjuncts (like grits for instance). I just tried a CAP I make a while ago doing this and I am exteremly pleased with the result. I made a pretty good beer using flaked corn but when I did a ceral mash on grits it really came out nice (thanks for that Aleman).

The trick to doing decoctions is to have a nice big pot to boil the grains in and have water at the ready so as not to burn the grain (which will ruin the whole deal). Oh yeah, you of course have to stir almost the entire time.

[Whorst]

Decoction mashes stemmed from when old world malt was not fully modified. Now, virtually all malt is fully modified. You can make great lager with either a single infusion, or a single step mash.

[Aleman]

I agree with both Whorst and Barley water. With all of todays malt (Including German Pilsner malt) decoction mashing is no longer necessary to make a great lager . . . . . In fact until you get single infusion mash lagers to turn out as you would expect you are wasting your time doing a decoction mash as it is yet something else to go wrong . . . Even Greg Noonan (Author of New Brewing Lager Beer, Owner of the 7 Barrels Brewery, and champion of decoction mashing) now only does a single decoction, rather than a triple decoction at 40, 60, 70C. I spent 3 or 4 years trying to produce a good Bohemian pilsner, and I succeeded pretty well, I now use a single infusion mash with German (Weyermann) Pilsner Malt and 20% Munich malt, if I want to over complicate things then I will add in 2% Melanoidin malt, and mash at 65C before pulling a thin decoction at the end of the mash and boiling that to increase melanoidins and raise the mash bed to sparging temperatures . . . but it isn't necessary.

If you are using British Lager malt, don't bother with a decoction just add a bit of Munich and some carapils for head formation/retention

[booldawg]

Thanks for all the input guys. TBH has saved me worrying about a big enough stockpot to accomodate the decoction into as well as the extra time and effort

[mysterio]

Any thoughts on German pilsner malt versus British lager malt, Aleman? The price of the German malt is killing me and i'm tempted to switch - but then again i've never tried a good British lager in my life

[Calum]

...but then again i've never tried a good British lager in my life

Mysty, what about Tennents?

Okay, I'll get my coat.

[Aleman]

Any thoughts on German pilsner malt versus British lager malt, Aleman? The price of the German malt is killing me and i'm tempted to switch - but then again i've never tried a good British lager in my life

The malt specs for German Pils and British Lager malt are very similar, both are fully modified and have similar protein levels, with the German malt just kilned a tad lighter. I've had some very nice lagers made with British lager malt but have never used it myself . . . given the way prices are going I may very well have to find out . . . I would bet that there would be very little difference in th equality of the beers made with either. . . . Matthew Brown brewed an absolutely cracking lager at Blackburn - Slalom 'D' for those that might recall it, but that was killed off in favour of McUrines when they were taken over by S&N

[delboy]

Any thoughts on German pilsner malt versus British lager malt, Aleman? The price of the German malt is killing me and i'm tempted to switch - but then again i've never tried a good British lager in my life

I would doubt the difference between quality in german lagers and a typical commercial british lager is down entirely to lager malt used in the recipe.
I'd guess its more down to the whole lager brewing process or what passes for lager brewing process in commercial british lagers, that and the complete lack of hop flavour of any shape for or description the almost total reliance on over carbonation and serving temperatures that wouldn't look out of place in the antartic

[mysterio]

Yeah, good point. Might be worth a shot.

I thought of a good British lager, Atlas Pilsner is cracking. Harvieston Shiehallion is pretty good, too.

Mysty, what about Tennents?

I've drank more of that stuff than I care to admit I used to live next door to the brewery.

[Neal]

Hello all,

First poster, long time lurker!

I'm going to have a go at my first weissbier in the next week or so, and fancied a bit of decoction action. Having only ever done infusions I have been reading the many posts on the subject and I have two questions:

1. Is the wheat malt modified to such an extent nowadays that decoction mashing is just for extra elements of flavour that could also be achieved with some vienna or Munich malts in the mash?

2. Is the return, in terms of flavour worth the effort? i.e. am I just overcomplicating things and setting myself up for a panful of burnt porridge?

[mysterio]

Hello all,

First poster, long time lurker!

I'm going to have a go at my first weissbier in the next week or so, and fancied a bit of decoction action. Having only ever done infusions I have been reading the many posts on the subject and I have two questions:

1. Is the wheat malt modified to such an extent nowadays that decoction mashing is just for extra elements of flavour that could also be achieved with some vienna or Munich malts in the mash?

2. Is the return, in terms of flavour worth the effort? i.e. am I just overcomplicating things and setting myself up for a panful of burnt porridge?

This is quite a zeitgeist topic on the forum at the moment! I'm gearing up to do a decocted wheat beer today if I get my wheat delivered.

1) Yes, wheat malt is modified enough that a decoction isn't needed. For this reason, you can skip the protein rest and brew a wheat beer with a single infusion, or if you're fancy you could do a maltose/saccharification rest, or even an acid rest to develop the clove-like phenols. I'm pretty sure the likes of Paulaner don't do decoctions anymore, and use Munich malt and Cara-Munich to mimic the effect.

2) I've heard people swear by it and i'm convinced enough to give it a try. I started a thread in the recipe section, i'm going with 44C decocted up to 67C.

For a first time I would probably say play it safe with a single infusion, see how you like it and then if you're curious enough save the decoction for a second attempt. You could try adding 5 - 10 % Munich in place of the pale and maybe a few % of Cara-Munich.

[awalker]

When I do my wheat beers now i always start the mash at 50oC for 20mins and then raise it (by more water addition), to 65oC for 60mins.

I have read a 50oC step can prevent a stuck mash at sparge time and I have not had a stuck mash since I started doing it this way.

[johnh]

When I do my wheat beers now i always start the mash at 50oC for 20mins and then raise it (by more water addition), to 65oC for 60mins.

Do you find that this affects head retention at all? I did exactly this on a recent Wit and the head retention was virtually non-existent.

[awalker]

When I do my wheat beers now i always start the mash at 50oC for 20mins and then raise it (by more water addition), to 65oC for 60mins.

Do you find that this affects head retention at all? I did exactly this on a recent Wit and the head retention was virtually non-existent.

Yes it does seem to effect it quite a bit.

I would be interested in knowing if there are more reasons for not doing it than there are for doing it.
Discuss......



As it would save some time as I could then leave the mash for 90mins and not have to worry about trying to fit the step mash water in