Doughing in: water to grain or grain to water?

[HantsGaz]

Just asking this question as most seem to add the grain to liquor - however Palmer advocates adding liquor to the grain - and specifically says not to do it the other way around. He doesn’t mention why so was wondering if there is anything behind this theory or not....?

Thanks, Gaz.

[Scooby]

I tend to ignore people who say you must do method 'A' and definitely not 'B' without giving a reason.

But I'd listen to the people that give two good reasons for method 'B' and two good reasons why not to do 'A"

[mysterio]

I tip the grains into the water, never occured to me to do it the other way.

[simple one]

Surely there is less risk of denaturing by adding water to grain. Grain to water would mean the initial grain would be added to a +70C temp.

I tend to add water to grain in a stepped style method, bringing temperature up within the mash. But thats only because I was always worried about over shooting strike temps. No excuse now I have found JBK and the calcs. I will be going for grain to water soon, less hassle.

[HantsGaz]

I tend to ignore people who say you must do method 'A' and definitely not 'B' without giving a reason.

But I'd listen to the people that give two good reasons for method 'B' and two good reasons why not to do 'A"

[tomU]

Adding grain to water makes it easier to avoid doughballs forming. Commercial brewers add grain and water at the same time - mine with the water at 76C so I wouldnt worry about denaturing the enzymes.

[delboy]

Adding grain to water makes it easier to avoid doughballs forming. Commercial brewers add grain and water at the same time - mine with the water at 76C so I wouldnt worry about denaturing the enzymes.

That doesn't make much sense to me TBH, trying adding flour to water and see how many doughballs you end up with, do it the other way round though water to flour to make a paste gradually adding the rest of the water and you get no doughballs just a smooth sauce.
The same principle should hold true grain also (it does IME), you just need to add a small amount of water and mix it well to wet all the grain then add the rest of the water.

Personally i bung the grain into the water but thats more for the reasons that chris gives.

[simple one]

Happy. I always thought the denaturing process was around the low 70s. I guess its time to make things easier for myself.

[tomU]

trying adding flour to water and see how many doughballs you end up with, do it the other way round though water to flour to make a paste gradually adding the rest of the water and you get no doughballs just a smooth sauce

I dont think that would hold true to the larger volumes in brewing. Making a sauce you might use a tablespoon or two of flour then vigorously mix in the liquid as you add it. You'd struggle to mix 5kg of grain in that thoroughly I'd have thought. I haven't tried it though - I just think it would be easier to add grain to water. Do it in whatever order you like...

I'm guessing he's refering to a steels masher Del

No we aren't that high-tech, we do use a pre-masher though (fig 14 in the link you posted).

[GARYSMIFF]

I do water to grain, but I use RIMS so I get to mix it up if i feel the need without altering the temp. 6kg is my max so far but thinking on doing a 40ltr brew soon.

[delboy]

trying adding flour to water and see how many doughballs you end up with, do it the other way round though water to flour to make a paste gradually adding the rest of the water and you get no doughballs just a smooth sauce

I dont think that would hold true to the larger volumes in brewing. Making a sauce you might use a tablespoon or two of flour then vigorously mix in the liquid as you add it. You'd struggle to mix 5kg of grain in that thoroughly I'd have thought. I haven't tried it though - I just think it would be easier to add grain to water. Do it in whatever order you like...

I'm guessing he's refering to a steels masher Del

No we aren't that high-tech, we do use a pre-masher though (fig 14 in the link you posted).

It does, i've done it, its a simple principle, get the grains wet with a small amount of liquid and no doughballs, its takes a far amount of stirring but it works fine.