HELP! Bitterness problem.

[196osh]

I plugged the figures for the IS I just made into beer engine and the pervious calculator I was using aparently was wrong. Totally my fault I know. Anyway the bitterness which was supposed to be 66IBUs is actually 38IBUs which is waay under what it needs to be to balence a 10% beer.

Could I draw off 500mls of beer that is currently fermenting add it to some water and boil the crap out of it with some high a.a.% bittering hops to increase the bitterness?

or just boil up hops with water and add it to the ferment. It has been fermenting since sunday evening.

What a muppet,

[Middo]

or just boil up hops with water and add it to the ferment.

That's what I'd do. Boil them for 60-90 mins in water, strain and cool down to fermentation temp, then add it slowly to the fermenter. Not saying it would work, but that's what I'd do!

[vacant]

I wonder if chucking in some "isomerised hop extract" would work? See bottom of this page

[196osh]

Having done some looking, I am going to boil up some hops for an hour. I'll boil 30 g of 15.8% aa hops in a just over half a litre of water.

That should mean the final beer has 70IBUs? ish?

[196osh]

Am boiling them in about 1300mls, lets hope this works. Fermentation is going nuts right now.

[mysterio]

My preferred method would be adding the isomerised hop extract. Remember hops are meant to be boiled in wort which has a lower pH than water so you could potentially have a problem extracting tannins from the hops. And i'm not sure about the logic of boiling some high alpha AA in half a litre of water. Remember there is a saturation point of IBUs (around 100) in fluids so you won't be extracting the full potential.

If it were me, I would just RDWHAHB and go with it. Lots of hop flavour and aroma can mask the lack of bitterness. If you do need to make adjustments I would do it post fermentation after tasting. You may well find it is fine. What was wrong with the previous calculator? Was it just a different formula ?

[196osh]

My preferred method would be adding the isomerised hop extract. Remember hops are meant to be boiled in wort which has a lower pH than water so you could potentially have a problem extracting tannins from the hops.

If it were me, I would just RDWHAHB and go with it. Lots of hop flavour and aroma can mask the lack of bitterness. What was wrong with the previous calculator? Was it just a different formula ?

Not really sure what the issue with the last calcualtor was. But I am sure that it was my fault.

With regards to extracting the tannins thing.... I just tasted what is boiling now and it is brutally bitter. And thats only been boilig for 10 mins so I dot have a problem with that.

The problem with the lack of bitterness is that its my IRS, so that is going to be at 10%abv, with currently 38ibus. Which is probably the reason why it was tasting so unbalenced wen i tasted the wort.

The hop bitter tea should bring it up to 65-70ibus i hope.

[196osh]

And i'm not sure about the logic of boiling some high alpha AA in half a litre of water. Remember there is a saturation point of IBUs (around 100) in fluids so you won't be extracting the full potential.

I thought rather than there being a saturation point of IBUs there was a "taste" threshold. I mean if I took a beer with 100 ibus and boiled it down to half the value the alpha acids in the beer wouldnt disappear, just you wouldnt be able to taste it?

[mysterio]

The saturation point of iso-alpha acids in wort is said to be around 100 - 150 mg/L which is around the 100 IBU mark, I believe.

I mean if I took a beer with 100 ibus and boiled it down to half the value the alpha acids in the beer wouldnt disappear, just you wouldnt be able to taste it?

True, but doing this and boiling hops in wort are different things. It's like you get to a point when you dissolve sugar in tea where it gets so concentrated that it won't readily dissolve anymore.

[196osh]

So then would it be worth my while boiling them up in a larger volume and then reducing that volume, so I wouldnt be extracting any extra aa but keeping the same amount in a smaller volume?

[mysterio]

I wouldn't recommend it because of the tannin thing, I think you could potentially do more harm than good IMO. Go ahead and add your tea if you've made it but it's usually best to make adjustments after tasting the final beer. I think vacant's idea is the way to go.

[196osh]

Sorry to keep going on, but what issues could the tannin thing cause?

[simple one]

Astringentcy... if spelt correctly. A course harshness of flavour. I would leave it alone. It will taste ok once matured.

[196osh]

So the consences is wait and see and wen it is finished fermenting if it is wildily unbalenced then I could order some hop extract?

[mysterio]

Here's a snippit from BYO:

During the boil, hop acids undergo numerous chemical changes and the resultant mix has a profound influence on beer bitterness and the quality of bitterness. When the pH of wort boiling is increased by adding alkaline buffers, hop utilization increases but bitterness is reportedly unpleasant. If you boiled hops in water as opposed to wort, the pH would be higher and the flavor would lack.

http://www.byo.com/stories/wizard/artic ... -mr-wizard

Tannin extraction, if it was a problem, can cause a harsh, astringent flavour/sensation. I'm starting to think the 5.2 buffer was causing it in some of my hoppy beers.