Late hops and off flavours?

[CrownCap]

My last couple of brews have both had a slightly off, dare I say "vegetable" flavour and aroma. At the same time, as I have progressed with AG brewing, I have been gradually increasing the amount of late hops added to my brews. Could the two be connected? I was thinking yesterday that "stewing" the hops may release chemicals like DMS that could be responsible?

For example, my last brew was a version of 100% Satisfaction. I'd done it before pretty much to the original recipe and it was fantastic and had a magical Goldings aroma. But this time I used up the entire packet of Goldings for that brew, 50g for 90mins (boil with lid off), 25g for 15mins and 25g steeped when down to about 80ºC. Result: little hop aroma, but the off smell and flavour. The only other common addition in the last two brews was some caramalt, but surely that can't be to blame (been ok in others).

Any help would be VERY gratefully received as this has really put a damper on my brewing. I want that hoppy nose and taste back, not Mum's burnt Sunday lunch cabbage

[farmhousekeg]

Not sure about your "off flavour issue" but if you are really into hoppy beers then get yourself some Chinook, Centennial and Cascade. I did a self made "clone" of Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale which is bittered with Chinook and then has Centennial and Cascade at 10 minutes and again as dry hops for 3 days in the secondary. Malts are MO, Munich and Crystal - absolutely wonderful strong aromas and flavours. I'm sure you'll find lots of suggested recipes with these hops if you search on this forum.

BTW, how fresh were the hops you used? Could that be an issue?

[CrownCap]

I'm not really a hop head, but I do appreciate a good aroma and flavour. Have used cascades before and found them good (if a little one-dimensional).

The Goldings were 'fresh' from Barley Bottom so I have no reason to believe they were off. In the previous brew, I used 2007 target and bobek (from H&G if I'm not mistaken). Both had been stored sealed in the freezer.

[mysterio]

I brew my fair share of hoppy beers, infact when I look at my hoppy recipes they seem way OTT compared to what other people call hoppy. Using a full 100 - 150g in the last 10 minutes of the boil is not unusual for me (23L batch). I'm just copying the kind of amounts some commercial brewers use in their hoppy beers. So you CAN brew hoppy beers with huge amounts of hops late in the boil. Thats NOT to say that its not the hops causing you trouble, there could be other factors at play.

If it is truly DMS you are tasting then that's a malt issue not hops. Are you using Maris Otter malt? You shouldn't have a problem with a high quality MO malt but you need to make sure you are getting a vigorous boil, not just a simmer, and don't cover the boil kettle at all. What kind of chilling method do you do? DMS can also be caused by bacterial infection so this is something you need to watch. Palmer describes DMS from bacteria as 'cooked cabbage'.

What is your water like and do you make any salt additions? I was extracting tannins from my hops and it turned out the culprit was the five-star 5.2 buffer product. It wasn't a vegetal flavour though.

[Buzz]

I've had cabbage like flavours from Nottingham before. I don't use it any more and never had the aroma back - what yeast are you using.

[CrownCap]

The base malt I'm using is Warminster Maltings MO, used in all my brews and never had any problems. I always get a vigorous boil, boil uncovered (the boiler, not me) and cool with an IC. One of the brews used S-04 and the other Nottingham.

Could fermentation temperature be an issue? Both we're fermented at about 21ºC, the coolest I could get them back in our Indian summer.

However, I guess an infection could well be the answer. Didn't know that DMS could result from that. Fermentation went pretty well (done in about 4 days) It would be a pretty mild infection I guess as the beer is still just about drinkable (I put that much effort into it, it'll have to be pretty bad to ditch it!). Thinking back I did get a similar result from a very early kit brew where I'd added some extra steeped hops (first gold) and grains (crystal). Had a number of problems with it that could have resulted in an infection.