Is there a way of knowing which hops go with which?

[Deebee]

Hi all,

As we all know there are a massive amount of hops from allover the world available to the home brewer.

The malt miller stocks 30 types!

So the question is as to whether there is some kind of guidline that points someone in the right direction.

i mean i have heard that cascade and centennial should not be used with darker malts? i have heard that fuggles and goldings are great together, but is there a list or something that says which hops do not work well together.

i have an idea for a big beer small beer brew in the very early part of the new year. i was planning a load of american hops, centennial, cascades, columbus maybe some amarillo.... but if i take the expence of this amount of malt and time, and the hops don't match go together then its drain cleaner.... and a rather expensive one at that.

So what are peoples thoughts, are there combinations of hops that are great together, not so good together, or avoid at all costs.

if we could maybe collect a list it might make hop choices for those new to homebrew easier:

I can happilly start with

centennial and cascades (belong together)
Challenger and Northdown are great together
target and fuggles are great together
Chinook and columbus are great together

any one want to add?

[mysterio]

Hi, I use the following rules of thumb:

- Rarely mix hops from different countries. Keep US hops together, and English hops together, they don't mix well together. The exception is Styrian Goldings which blends well with both types.
- Look at hop substitution charts. Usually similar hops will mix well together.
- Brew single hop beers before you start blending so you know what you're tasting. There are very few hops that don't work well on their own.
- Look at tried and tested recipes to see what people are blending.
- Overly roasted malts don't go with citrusy US hops IMHO but it can definitely be done with a bit of skill, try toning down the roasted malts and use a huskless malt (Carafa) in its place.
- Goldings & Fuggles is the classic. Some other ones to try are Amarillo & Simcoe, Riwaka & Motoueka, Northern Brewer & Cascade, Challenger and Northdown, Magnum and Hallertau Hersbruker, Styrian Goldings & EK Goldings. Chinook & Columbus sounds great too.

[dave-o]

First Gold, cascade, bobek and amarillo all work great together in any combination.

[Deebee]

Thaks for the input.

this was generally the idea. if we can get people to list up tried and tested combos then maybe we can make a sticky and have an idea of combos for future use?
Just a though

I am now thinking centennial, cascade chinook and maybe columbus...

[Aleman]

Bobek and Nelson Sauvin

[BarnsleyBrewer]

Just done a bitter with Challenger and Cascade and dry hopped with Bobek, tastes great.

[Fallen]

NZ Cascade and Motueka (unbelievable)
Cascade & Amarillo

[steve_flack]

i mean i have heard that cascade and centennial should not be used with darker malts?

They can. In fact there's a nascent style coming up called (by some) a Cascadian Dark Ale. It's more like a black IPA in body than a porter or stout

[boingy]

... a Cascadian Dark Ale.

I had to do a double-take on that. I thought it said "Canadian"

I think brewing has moved beyond the traditional and there are now no real rules for hop combination so the key is to experiment. There will always be the classic combos like Goldings and Fuggles but the ever growing list of hop varieties means ever more choice.
I struggle to keep up with the new varieties and I find the descriptions rarely help. It's like trying to describe sound.

[Manx Guy]

i mean i have heard that cascade and centennial should not be used with darker malts?

They can. In fact there's a nascent style coming up called (by some) a Cascadian Dark Ale. It's more like a black IPA in body than a porter or stout

Interesting... I heard that too...

THEN I tried Anchor Porter... Wow One of my favourite Porters!
Amazing mouth feel and well balanced coffee/choc maltyness with a slight hop bitterness...

I then found out that it uses Magnum/NB for bittering and Cascade as flavour(late) addition

Once I've done a few planned PAle AG beers this is on my to do list
Together with a Maple Mild as I tried a commercial example last winter and loved it!
(possibly done as a partigyle... But i need to do further research first )



Cheers!

Guy

[lancsSteve]

Bramling Cross are disgusting with everything - in my opinion. Definitely an acquired taste!!! (As is chinook - pine is such a nice flavour in the woods e but strangely more remeniscent of loo cleaner outside that context!)

The 'normal' and 'super' hops seem to go well for bitterness/flavour but are almost too similar for interest but useful if 'using up' e.g. Bobek (styrian) + Aurora (super styrian) / cascade + centennial ('super cascade')

The 'same country' rule works well to not go wrong but seems to miss out on some exciting possibilities - I love Saaz as a finishing hop in UK ales... I've found that American hops tend to dominate the setting they;re in when put alongside Europeans and English (so maybe it's a produce of growing up there and something in the air and soil that does the same to the culture/people? )

Some bottled beers are starting to list their varieties included which is nice to see and learn from. Hop sub tables definitely a good place to go.

Re: Cascadian Ale If you want to mess with people heads and mouths brew a stout with roasted rye substituted for roasted barley - which gives all the roasted flavour but a mid-dark brown colour rather than black, then a cascadian IPA with de-husked/de-bittered carafa special and watch the drinkers head go wonky (or try a blind taste test with 'guess the colour' aspect) as they try to figure a medium brown beer tasting like a stout while a pitch black beer tastes like a pale ale!!!

[JammyBStard]

i mean i have heard that cascade and centennial should not be used with darker malts?

They can. In fact there's a nascent style coming up called (by some) a Cascadian Dark Ale. It's more like a black IPA in body than a porter or stout

I was just reading a thread on an american home berw forum about Cascadian Dark Ale that seemed to sugest the name refered to the area it orginated; the Cascade Mountans, rather than specifically the hop as I'd assumed! I dont know if that's deffinatly true (it was on the internet).

[WishboneBrewery]

Cascade, Centennial & Nelson Sauvin with a lot of NS

My Recent experiment with Hersbrucker & Nelson Sauvin turned out pretty good too

Saaz & Cascade, going light on the cascade and having shed loads of Saaz is a winner for a cracking blonde

[Deebee]

Cascade, Centennial & Nelson Sauvin with a lot of NS

My Recent experiment with Hersbrucker & Nelson Sauvin turned out pretty good too

Saaz & Cascade, going light on the cascade and having shed loads of Saaz is a winner for a cracking blonde

great, i'll post a thread in the near future where i combine all the reccomendations into a list OK?

[BarnsleyBrewer]

Good Idea.