'Secondary' keg confusion

[Bondelle]

Me again!

I hope the following ramblings make some sense

Following leaving the brew for about 10 days in the FV, I am a little unclear about what to do regarding the 'secondary' keg once I have put the liquor into it?

I checked the gravity, and it was spot on, plus there was very little in the way of 'bubbles' plopping through the airlock in the FV, so transferred the batch to my plastic pressure keg. I have been checking on the keg and releasing the pressure build up each morning and evening. The keg is in the house at about 20 degrees.

My newbie reasoning for releasing the pressure is that once fermentation stops (i.e. no pressure build up), then it's ready to bottle... or have I got it wrong?

Perhaps I should leave it longer in the secondary after fermentation finishes, before bottling?

Or should I bottle it a little sooner whilst it is still generating a little pressure in the secondary keg? But then I would worry about adding sugar to the bottles and there might be too much pressure build up!

Any tips on a 'best practice' here folks?

Thank you in advance for any pointers

confused

[flything]

It's obviously still fermenting if pressure is building up (assuming the temp is stable) so you're right to be cautious about bottling it yet. Although 10 days should be plenty...

When you say seconday keg, presumably you mean a pressure barrel? You could just leave it and drink it from there, the final bit of fermentation should give you a nice condition without having to add any more priming sugars.

You really need to wait until you get the same gravity reading two days on the trot, before bottling, personally I leave it for a couple more days after that point anyway as it won't do any harm and overcarbonated beer is nasty and potentially dangerous!

Some people do bottle when the beer is a couple of gravity points about their expected final gravity (say 1.012 when 1.010 is the target) but this takes experience to judge right, far easier to leave the beer to finish and then add a measured amount of priming sugar (dissolved in a 1/4 pint of boiled water) to a bucket before racking the beer on top, giving it a very gentle stir and then bottling from there.

This seems like a reasonably simple calculator, the reason you need to know the temp of the beer is because there will be some co2 dissolved already from the fermentation, set the units to metric, put the volume of beer you have in litres and assuming it's an ale 1,5 volumes of Co2, pick your priming sugar and off you go.

http://www.fattymattybrewing.com/homebr ... tion=sugar

[Bondelle]

When you say seconday keg, presumably you mean a pressure barrel?

Yes, it's a cheap jobby but seems ok for the task Thanks for the tips too!

It does seem a long time 'fermenting' though.. I was expecting after 10 days (I used SO4) for it to be finished by now

[Eric]

When you say seconday keg, presumably you mean a pressure barrel?

Yes, it's a cheap jobby but seems ok for the task Thanks for the tips too!

It does seem a long time 'fermenting' though.. I was expecting after 10 days (I used SO4) for it to be finished by now

From what I've read, it does appear primary fermentation has been finished for some time, probably about the end of the 4th day when I guess the yeast head collapsed.
With most of the yeast and any trub from the boiler then at the bottom of the FV, you transfer the beer with some yeast to another vessel.
It will continue to ferment, known as secondary fermentation. This is usually done under pressure and the beer will come into condition with CO2 being absorbed by the beer while complex flavours develop.
If you intend to bottle condition you are going a stage further. Doing it too early and/or with too much sugar you run the risk of excess pressures and the associated problems. If you bottle too late with too little sugar or yeast left you risk having flat beer.
The beer I'm drinking tonight was brewed on September 2nd and is still producing CO2 keeping it in perfect CONDITION.

[Bondelle]

I think I am more confused now Eric!

My plan is to bottle as I am not sure how the pressure keg might hold up. I was going to wait till the brew has calmed down and then add about 80g sugar to the batch when I transfer to bottling vessle and take it from there. I think when I am more confident I will try leaving it in the keg

[Eric]

I think I am more confused now Eric!

My plan is to bottle as I am not sure how the pressure keg might hold up. I was going to wait till the brew has calmed down and then add about 80g sugar to the batch when I transfer to bottling vessle and take it from there. I think when I am more confident I will try leaving it in the keg

Sorry if I've done that, my intention was to leave the choice with you. You can check the keg pressure at the tap end by how a small sample pours.
While your report left out much vital information like OG and FG and whether gravity was still falling, I got the impression that the primary fermentation had been normal and felt you could bottle with a half teaspoon of sugar per pint without worry. However you indicated concern that fermentation continued, but this is what should happen, it is just that the highly fermentable sugars should have been exhausted at this stage.
It isn't possible to be precise about what you should do next, it is a matter of guesswork with the available information and the probable reason why few have offered advice. The one thing I can say without fear of contradiction, I'd be worried if pressure wasn't being produced in the keg.

[Bribie]

Your hydrometer is your friend here. At the end of primary fermentation, if you have the same gravity reading 3 days in a row (for example 1009) then you can do whatever you like with the beer, with some confidence that you are not going to create bottle bombs etc. From the FV you can then transfer to a pressure barrel with some priming sugar, where it will produce a good top pressure of CO2 and save on buying CO2 bulbs until the barrel is well down, or you can bottle. It's a long long time since I used a PB as we don't have them in Australia but IIRC the CO2 injector in the cap has a pressure release valve so that if the beer is continuing to ferment in the barrel (as it will do if you sugar-prime it) then it will vent off any excess pressure?

[flything]

It will continue to ferment, known as secondary fermentation.

No, this is a misnomer, once the sugars have been fermented then fermentation stops, secondary fermentation only occurs if you add more fermentables, fruit for instance.

I can't say why after 10 days there is airlock activity, there shouldn't be.

[Eric]

It will continue to ferment, known as secondary fermentation.

No, this is a misnomer, once the sugars have been fermented then fermentation stops, secondary fermentation only occurs if you add more fermentables, fruit for instance.

I can't say why after 10 days there is airlock activity, there shouldn't be.

Interesting, so once the initial fermentation (can't use primary if there is no secondary) is complete, no yeasts act on heavier sugars like, say (I'm no chemist) maltotriose, some which might give off gas?
I'm well out of date, almost 50 years since my first brews, many of those were quite appalling. Over the years of an intermittent hobby I must have picked up a lot of information that is today deemed incorrect and since joining this Forum my beers have improved beyond all my expectation due to better knowledge. That I might better get my head around what goes on in my barrels, can you direct me to some literature that might bring me up to date on what I have known as secondary fermentation?