Dare I take the leap?

[bovrilheid]

Hi all, Been brewing kits for a little while now and have been successful in every brew (how lucky am I), keep things simple, extremely clean seems to be the secret for me. Of course I have had a few issues around leaky seals and under/overpressure of barrel.....but all really valuable learning experiences and I have really enjoyed brewing. Have been reading the forums on and off and would like to try AG. Issues for me are that I am the only one in the hosue that drinks (OH is teetotal), I live in Shetland so pretty much everything needs to be done online.

So a question I keep asking myself is "do I have a go at AG?" Now I know that asking this question on an AG forum is one of the most stupid things I've done as I reckon pretty much all of you will say "go for it...you'll never go back etc etc?" but put your objective hats on here and help me out. I need to get a shed load more equipment at a cost (I am not loaded and I am also not inclined to build something myself, partly due to the lack of equipment up here....you can't just pop around to your local plumbing centre, partly due to the lack of time I have....but mainly because I'd make an arse of it and end up spending even more cash!!!) So looking for a kit to go with my 1 FV and 3 king keg barrels...along with all the usual siphons etc. had a look at a few kits and we're looking at £200+ difficult ot justify to myself spending that amount when I am getting good results from kits....but I like the idea of creating my own beer from scratch...youi all know whatI'm talking about.

So what I am asking your help with is.....thoughts (objective thoughts mind!!!) on wether I take the plunge to AG (you will have gethered that I really want to do it!!!), and if I do any recs for good kits, or a list of basics that go with what I have got at the moment. supplies need to be online too. I genrally just want a chat with some folk that understand the situation and can help me think through a few things.....like should Ifleabay them perhaps?

thanks all, looking forward to a chat
Bovrilheid

[EoinMag]

Hi all, Been brewing kits for a little while now and have been successful in every brew (how lucky am I), keep things simple, extremely clean seems to be the secret for me. Of course I have had a few issues around leaky seals and under/overpressure of barrel.....but all really valuable learning experiences and I have really enjoyed brewing. Have been reading the forums on and off and would like to try AG. Issues for me are that I am the only one in the hosue that drinks (OH is teetotal), I live in Shetland so pretty much everything needs to be done online.

So a question I keep asking myself is "do I have a go at AG?" Now I know that asking this question on an AG forum is one of the most stupid things I've done as I reckon pretty much all of you will say "go for it...you'll never go back etc etc?" but put your objective hats on here and help me out. I need to get a shed load more equipment at a cost (I am not loaded and I am also not inclined to build something myself, partly due to the lack of equipment up here....you can't just pop around to your local plumbing centre, partly due to the lack of time I have....but mainly because I'd make an arse of it and end up spending even more cash!!!) So looking for a kit to go with my 1 FV and 3 king keg barrels...along with all the usual siphons etc. had a look at a few kits and we're looking at £200+ difficult ot justify to myself spending that amount when I am getting good results from kits....but I like the idea of creating my own beer from scratch...youi all know whatI'm talking about.

So what I am asking your help with is.....thoughts (objective thoughts mind!!!) on wether I take the plunge to AG (you will have gethered that I really want to do it!!!), and if I do any recs for good kits, or a list of basics that go with what I have got at the moment. supplies need to be online too. I genrally just want a chat with some folk that understand the situation and can help me think through a few things.....like should Ifleabay them perhaps?

thanks all, looking forward to a chat
Bovrilheid

To get an idea if you're into it, get yourself a boiler and a voile bag and give Brew in a bag a go. There is a section of the forum dedicated to it now and a wealth of information also available on www.biabrewer.info

[trucker5774]

Just take a deep breath and jump in.........................it's nowhere near as hard as it is sometimes made to sound (people just getting really deep) Pick a simple flavoursome recipe and go for it..........It's harder to fail than to make a decent beer!

[GrowlingDogBeer]

I agree with the idea of having a go at Brew In a Bag as you don't need half as much equipment. I have however hever tried it myself. Also the next step from Kits is Extract Brewing. You could just get yourself a Boiler and do some Extract brews for a while, you can always do some BIAB brews as well. If you really want a full AG set up you can add bits on as you go.

[raiderman]

So a question I keep asking myself is "do I have a go at AG?" Now I know that asking this question on an AG forum is one of the most stupid things I've done as I reckon pretty much all of you will say "go for it...you'll never go back etc etc?" but put your objective hats on here and help me out. I need to get a shed load more equipment at a cost (I am not loaded and I am also not inclined to build something myself, partly due to the lack of equipment up here....you can't just pop around to your local plumbing centre, partly due to the lack of time I have....but mainly because I'd make an arse of it and end up spending even more cash!!!) So looking for a kit to go with my 1 FV and 3 king keg barrels...along with all the usual siphons etc. had a look at a few kits and we're looking at £200+ difficult ot justify to myself spending that amount when I am getting good results from kits....but I like the idea of creating my own beer from scratch...youi all know whatI'm talking about.


thanks all, looking forward to a chat
Bovrilheid

Go for it. You don't need to replicate the Courage Brewery Factory to make great beer. A boiler and a couple of 5gallon buckets and a couple of grain bags will be fine. I mash in the boiler using a grain bag, I've a bent wire baking rack to stop the bag pressing on the element and I brew beer and lagers. For sparging I drop the grain bag into a bucket and dump a couple of kettles of boiling water over it. I boil the hopsi n the boiler in muslin bags. Boilers aren't dear and you might get an old burco or tea urn on ebay. I'm currently using a tea urn that cost me £20! If you like it and want to add later you can move to a mash tun, but in all honesty I've never felt the need

[boingy]

You can get into AG for lots less than £200 and without making your own kit but one thing that is not always clear about the difference between AG and kits is the extra time a brew will take. Your first AG will take you all day (and your kitchen will look like a bomb zone!). With practice you will get it down to maybe 5 hours and the kitchen will be pristine because you have learned to clean as you go (boingy waves to Mrs Bovrilheid...). This compares badly with the few tens of minutes it takes to get a kit into the fermenting bin. In your post you mention that you don't have much time so maybe that is something you need to consider.

There is the halfway house of extract brewing. That skips the mashing part so saves a couple of hours and the need for a mash tun (and, optionally, an HLT). You can brew superb and varied beers with extract and all you would really need to add to your equipment is a boiler, either an electric "bruheat boiler" style bucket or maybe a big stockpot that you can boil on your cooker. And if you subsequently decide to go AG then the boiler will still be needed. At the risk of annoying all the extract brewers out there, I can think of three downsides to Extract brewing compared with All Grain:

1. The cost of the malt extract is higher than the equivalent grain, so your cost per pint is a bit higher. It's still very low though.
2. Extract is not quite so flexible in terms of recipes. If you are into "world" or oddball beers then you may struggle to replicate them with extract.
3. You'll only be half a man. Erm, oops, I mean, you'll always wonder if AG would be better....

[bovrilheid]

Quality replies all thanks, exactly the sort of discussion I was hoping to have. I had thought about the extract and stockpot option, but as per boingy's reply I do think about AG as being a mashtun away and if I go sdown that route I'm guessing I'll end up at the AG anyway.

Excellent point about the time too. I also have 8 year olds running around the house and that was one major drawback I'm not overly keen on them running about with lots of boiling goign on.......but easy to kick them out for a day!!!

could you give me some links "...for equipment well under £200" boingy

Raiderman - I like the idea of just using bags and a boiler...sparging sounds simple in your method (how efficient is it using your thoughts).....might be an idea because all I am looking for then is a boiler. I can see the attraction as it is much cheaper.

excellent stuff though folks. I do enjoy blethering about brewing

[dave-o]

£200??

I got a full AG set up for abotu £30 on Ebay from someone who was selling up. Worth keeping an eye open for a similar deal.

[boingy]

could you give me some links "...for equipment well under £200" boingy

I successfully brewed many an AG batch using nothing more than a Bruheat-style boiler and a suspended grain bag:

http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/catalog/de ... OTH2156036

Mashing was a bit of a pain because you needed to stir it lots to keep the temperature even but it made great beers. Sparging was pouring a few kettlefuls of hot water over the grain.

If you want to go a bit more upmarket you could use an unmodified coolbox as a mashtun. Once again, contain the grain in a bag so you can just lift it out, jug out the wort then put it back in with more hot water to sparge.

Upmarket yet again is the Hop and Grape mash tun. I currently use one of these and they work really well:

http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/catalog/de ... HA20225648

This plus a Bruheat-style boiler totals less than £120 (plus about a zillion pounds to ship them to Shetland...) and really are all you need. All the shiny stuff, pumps, controllers and pipework you see on here really is just blokes being blokes.

And as Dave says, there is always the chance of a bargain on eBay. I'm currently converting a Thermo pot to make a bigger mashtun so my H&G box will be up for sale at some point (Yes, I know I just said it was fine but I make 8 gallon batches and it's just a bit small. Anyway, it's shiny and I'm also a bloke... )

[Brotherton Lad]

Don't forget, too, that AG is approx half the price of kit brewing (under £10 per 5 gallon rather than £20 or more). So, if you strike lucky finding the gear you could be running into 'profit' within the first year.

[bigdave]

I can understand you not being too keen to make the gear yourself but I think just about everyone who brews AG has had to make their own mash tun. Its really easy to make a basic one from an asda / tesco cool box and then there's nothing stopping you only brewing a couple of gallons at a time in a stock pot on the stove and allow it to cool naturally outside. At least then you've tried it at minimal cost and if you like it you could build up your kit slowly.

[Blackjack]

You need a hydrometer and a thermometer, but you already have them.
A second hand burco off of ebay or wherever is the way to go and with a touch of ingenuity this can double up as hlt and boiler.
For the MT you only need a very cheap coolbox ( £10 to £15) and a handful of the commonest plumbing bits. 2 mts of 15mm copper pipe, 3 T pieces, 5 elbows a tank coupler and a 15mm compression fitting ball valve. (£20 to £25)
If no tap hole at the bottom of the coolbox you will need a wood auger ( 22mm) to cut a hole. (£4)
You then need a little propane torch, solder unless you use the ready to go elbows, little tin of flux, pipe cutting tool (£20). I have allowed top whack prices like you will have to pay but I am sure there is a builders/plumbers somewhere in shetland. If you have never soldered it does not matter because the soldering does not have to be watertight and is extremely easy ( wipe joint ends with wire wool, wipe with thin smear of flux, assemble, heat with propane torch till you see silvery solder seeping out).

The thing that requires some inventiveness is a cooler for the boiled wort, Finding a large coil of 10mm copper at a fair price might be tricky for you and it will need a few little fittings ( 10mm to 15mm couplers/ a 3in piece of 15mm copper on each and two jubilee clips) at the ends to attach the in and out hoses. But there are other ways, a pal of mine has a big tank about 18ins deep he pours 27 gals of hot wort into 3 cut off beer kegs that sit in the tank and then he runs water into the tank that acts like a cooling jacket and it flows out of an overflow.

Bottom Line...DO IT. When I read instructions for extract brewing I sometimes think that AG brewing is just as simple. It's only making porridge for breakfast!

JP

ps. I have a 24 lt coolbox MT with copper manifold all working in as new condition (15 brews) ready to go but now redundant cos I have upgraded to a 9 to 15 gal. brewery. You can have it for not a lot plus postage to shetland. If interested pm me with your email address and I will send you some snaps by email and work out a fair price ( less than it cost).

[Blackjack]

Out of interest just scanned ebay for Burco and plenty of 30 lts boilers generally between £125 and £165 but even one at £90 which is a bargain.

[mysterio]

Good advice so far. All I would say is go for it Bovril. It will change your life! There is nothing quite like the taste of your first AG.

I just bought one of the pre-made Hop & Grape 10 gallon kits. Keep an eye on ebay though and you may pick up a bargain.

[bovrilheid]

Oh dear the wife has been looking over my shoulder and you can imagine the comments! she thinks we have something called a "utility room", although I have explained many times it is actually a brewery, but the bit about the kitchen looking a bomb site sent her through the roof. She liked the bit about AG being cheaper than kits (good thinking whoever suggested that), so we are definately on the hunt for the cheaper option here.

I'm going to have a look around on fleabay for a boiler, but any links or further chat is welcome.

cheers all