What am I doing wrong?

[mattjazz2000]

Did the recipe below on Sunday and once again I didn't collect anywhere near enough wort (18l for a 23l brew recipe) from the mash and sparge.
This is what I did.
Strike water temp was 76c, mash when I wrapped it up was 67c, temp after 90 min mash was 64c but I only collect 8.5l of wort. I then sparged 3 times at 78/80c and as I say I ended up with 18l of wort. I then stopped because the hydrometer was reading 1010 on the wort I was collecting.
I always seem to have this problem, anyone got any ideas.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Exe Valley Spring Beer


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 26.28 l
Post Boil Volume: 23.92 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Bottling Volume: 21.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.039 SG
Estimated Color: 8.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 39.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.28 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 100.0 %
29.00 g Target [11.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 2 39.3 IBUs
0.30 g Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 3 -
10.00 g Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Hop 4 0.0 IBUs
6.00 g Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Hop 5 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 4.28 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 11.16 l of water at 75.0 C 65.6 C 90 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 19.41 l water at 75.6 C
Notes:
------

[simple one]

You sound as if you are getting the sugars in to solution. That's job done.... you just need to then dilute with your excess sparge water to get your volume.

The only "but" is.... If you are sparging too quick you may be not pulling out enough of the sugars as the sparge water passes through, and attaining a low gravity too early.

[mattjazz2000]

I left the sparge for 30 mins each time, ie filled up wrapped up and left for 30 mins. Am I worrying to much about getting the full amount of wort rather than getting as much as I can then topping up with water? I always seem to come in 4 or 5 degrees below the expected o.g and thought this was maybe because of adding so much water.

[simple one]

It says on your recipe that you fly sparge.... Yet it sounds like you batch sparge.

If you are going to continue batch sparging I would reduce the times you batch sparge to two. But increase the volume of sparge water that you add each time. That'll give you your volumes and keep your gravity up above 1010.

[Eric]

As you suspect, the gravity shouldn't normally fall to that level that quickly. Are you making full for temperature when you take your gravity reading?

Jim posted this a while since for a hydrometer calibrated at 15C.

[mattjazz2000]

Of course, I'm making no adjustment for temp. So 1010 at 55c is actually 1023ish. Bugger I've been throwing all that good grain away, no wonder the chickens like it.

[keith1664]

If you're batch sparging which it sounds like you are then there's no need to measure the gravity of your runnings. Simply divide the sparge water equally between the number of sparges, give it a good stir, wait 10 minutes, recirc until reasonably clear then run it off. 3 sparges seems excessive as well, I do 2 for a 40L brew and if my mash tun were bigger it'd be one. This gives me between 83-86% efficiency.
As for your mash runoff that looks about right, you'll lose approximately a litre of liquid per kilo of grain due to absorbtion.

[vacant]

Boil Size: 26.28 l
Post Boil Volume: 23.92 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Bottling Volume: 21.00 l

Working backwards:

• You want 23l into the FV
• After emptying the boiler you may have 1.5 litres left in hops/trub (24.5l)
• During the boil you may boil off 4l/hour so 90m = 6l (30.5l)
• When draining from MT into the boiler you might leave 5 litres in MT dead space and soaked up water in the grains (35.5)

I'd be surprised if you only lost 2.4 litres in a 90 minute boil. If so, are you getting a gentle simmer rather than a rolling boil?

[kebabman]

If you can afford the £19 odd for a refractometer from ebay then you can keep an eye on your wort gravities a lot more easily than using a hyrometer and having to correct for temperature all the time.

[mshergold]

I often don't collect as much wort as intended, but as simple one mentioned, I top up with excess water and everything's find (especially since I adjusted my efficiency).

Keith1664 says:

If you're batch sparging which it sounds like you are then there's no need to measure the gravity of your runnings. Simply divide the sparge water equally between the number of sparges, give it a good stir, wait 10 minutes, recirc until reasonably clear then run it off. 3 sparges seems excessive as well, I do 2 for a 40L brew and if my mash tun were bigger it'd be one. This gives me between 83-86% efficiency.

Am I correct in thinking that you sparge once with water, then again with the wort?

[keith1664]

No, twice with water.

[mshergold]

Thanks Keith. Do you collect the second half in a seperate container or rest the mash before sparging the second time?

[keith1664]

I'm using 3 vessels so it goes straight into the boiler which is turned on.

[mattjazz2000]

Thanks for all the helpful responses. I think a lot of my trouble is not having beersmith set up properly.
How do you work out your efficiency and thus improve it?

[orlando]

I think a lot of my trouble is not having beersmith set up properly.

I think this is part of it. There are some useful posts on setting up your equipment profile on the BS2 forum. The key is to track all the data you produce and enter them into the profile. I saw in your BS2 recipe that it was asking for a 75 minute boil but you say you boiled for more. You need to be able to track each point that liquour losses occur. Once you know what your total losses are you can then start with the right volumes from the start. Efficiency is a confusing concept and in beersmith it can be either mash efficiency or total efficiency, either can be used when setting up your equipment profile but you do have to choose one or the other and make adjustments accordingly.