How to increase the flavour & taste of my homebrew?

[norstar]

Hi guys.

Having finally solved a long running issue with astringency, I've ended up with a clean but ultimately dry and uninteresting beer with no residual hop character or fruitiness/sweetness. Having been to the pub last night and sampled a few local brewed beers, they all have a residual sweetness/fruitiness to balance the bitterness and the hops are fragrant, which are two things I don't seem to have achieved.

Last recipe for 14L was:

Pale malt: 2880g 91.9%
Crystal: 125g 4%
Torrified Wheat 125g 4%

Hops:
Target 12g 60m
First Gold 8g 20m
First Gold 8g 5m
First Gold 25g steeped 30mins

Mashed at 67 degrees. Fermented at 18 degrees. Used Danstar Nottingham yeast which attenuated from 1.043 to 1.010.


So to make the beer sweeter or fruitier (never can tell the difference), would it be something simple like increasing the crystal malt in the recipe, fermenting hotter, underpitching yeast etc or will Nottingham always give that flavour so a change of yeast is required? Perhaps something like the Whitelabs WLP002 English Ale yeast?

And to get more hop character, obviously steeping with 25g wasn't enough. How do you achieve the fragrant citrus taste in some hoppy beers - is that derived more from dry hopping?

Thanks as always for any pointers!

[eclipse]

First of all I cant personally stand Nottingham, try German Ale Yeast.

If you want more hop flavour, you could dry hop. Perhaps with something like cascade - be careful not to over do it though, a little is enough. You might want to try adding some flaked barley in your recipes to give some body.

[norstar]

If a yeast change is required, are there any dried yeasts that give a fruitier, sweeter tasting beer along the lines of WLP002 from White Labs? Or is a liquid one required?

[far9410]

Wot temp did you mash at? Lower temp mash leads to a dry finish

[gnutz2]

Have you tried safeale s-04 yeast (its very fruity)? If not this would be your first port of call, notty is very dry.

Then try upping the crystal in the recipe or adding carapils, this makes the wort a lot less fermentable leaving more residual sweetness.

And for more floral hop aroma, cool the beer to 80c at the end of boil and dump a load of hops in, dont be shy, i regularly use a 100g packet up in the last 15mins on 25l brews.

30g at 15min and 70g for 30min steep at 80c.

This usually gives pretty good flavour and aroma.

These are some techniques i use but i prefer wlp05 yeast.

HTH

[scuppeteer]

+1 for what Gnutz said.

Notty does tend to strip hop flavours, its a good attenuator, but I would recommend S04. It seems to be very good for most types of beer and my dry yeast of choice. And more hops!

[far9410]

I use notty almost always, and while it does not give a lot to flavour, I have no problems achieving fruity brews

[Naich]

I'm currently drinking a Nottingham yeast brew and it's lovely and fruity. One thing that did once suck all the flavour out of a batch was an infection. It reduced what should have been a nice brew to an insipid watery flavourless thing. One of the signs that it was infected was that it was still fermenting vigorously after about 10 days, when things have normally settled down.

And it's better to put too many hops in than too few.

[Beer O'Clock]

No problems with Notty. far9410 asked a good question. Mash temp (if too low) will result in a beer that you describe. Adding more hops late may also help.

Also, do you do any water teatment ?

[norstar]

Well as regards mash temperature, I tested with two thermometers and the last two batches I did were at 67 degrees held steady for 1hr 15 mins. Surely 67 degrees is high enough? Out of curiosity - far9410 and Naich - what temps do you mash at and do you use higher % of crystal to get a fruity Nottingham brew? Do you also ferment from a higher OG? Perhaps it's that my last two 4% bitters aren't enough to leave sweetness behind for Nottingham yeast whereas a 5% beer would? Perhaps you could ping me the recipe you use to achieve a fruity notts beer and if I try it and get a dry one, I know it's me!

Water treatment differed with the two batches - recipe was the same but the first was tap water with just CRS, and the second was Asda smart price water with added Calcium Chloride to boost the maltiness. Used two different packs of Danstar yeast and there was no difference so I think I can rule out water treatment.

Thanks for the hop pointers gnutz2 - looks like I need to up the amount used when steeping to have the effect I want. I haven't tried safale 04 yet no. I've got a couple of Gervins English Ale yeast and a Safale of some description. Was toying with the idea of buying a liquid yeast.

[Bryggmester]

I have no problems with Nottingham, although it does gives a drier finish than SO4. You say you have a couple of Gervin English Ale yeasts:- I understand that these are actually the sameas Nottingham, but with a different packaging. 67 degrees is fine.

[orlando]

Others have mentioned a few things about the brewing but hopping could stand another comment. The best method I have read about and experimented with myself is dry hopping. There is sometimes confusion about what this means. Dry hopping for aroma is best achieved in the fermenter but after the yeast has subsided so close to FG. 40-50g in a 25 litre brew using a great aroma hop should really boost this, leave for a good few days. You asked for a citrusy hop and cascade is extremely good. Some will use a hop bag if they want to harvest yeast but I find putting them in whole is fine. Don't worry about infection, brewers have been doing this for hundreds of years and they wouldn't if it didn't work you will not get an infection.

[nobby]

I like a nice Malty Bitter and I can’t be bothered with fancy yeast I like the simplicity of dried yeast.

What I do is add 500grams of Munich Malt, mash at 67c and use SO4 yeast and the results are very nice and malty. Also if you want a Malty Sweat Beer don't go to hoppy as this will mask the taste aim for an IBU of 27 ish

[gregorach]

if you want a Malty Sweat Beer

That sounds horrible...

EDIT: what's going on with the quote tags? Somebody messing with the filters?

[gregorach]

if you want a Malty Sweat Beer

That sounds horrible...

EDIT: Damn it, I can't delete the earlier post with the messed up tags...