Finings and dry hopping

[Kev888]

I haven't used finings often (apart from copper finings), but I've got some from murphys to try: Finings Adjunct (auxiliary finings), and Allkleer A (which is isinglass). Looking at the tech sheets it seems that the former is used to remove proteins and the latter suspended yeast and can be used almost at the same time (not quite).

My questions are:

• is it likely that these will react negatively with dry hopping for any reason? (dry hopping in the FV, with finings added towards the end)
• How long are they likely to take to work? (I've cooled my FV to about 5c but its struggling to get much lower).

Cheers
Kev

[Fuse]

Hey Kev,

For Aux finnings just add them in the FV and cool 5oC will be fine, i add 1pint per BBL, but i use ABvikers stuff im sure the murphys tech sheet will have info on dosage. I cool for 24 Hours add finings, leave for another 24 hours and then move off to conditioning or cask. I tend not to use much if any isinglass as its usualy crystal clear whn it comes out the FV.

[Kev888]

Thanks, thats most helpful - they're quicker than I thought

Cheers,
Kev

[orlando]

Hey Kev,

For Aux finnings just add them in the FV and cool 5oC will be fine, i add 1pint per BBL, but i use ABvikers stuff im sure the murphys tech sheet will have info on dosage. I cool for 24 Hours add finings, leave for another 24 hours and then move off to conditioning or cask. I tend not to use much if any isinglass as its usualy crystal clear whn it comes out the FV.

How does it effect secondary fermentation when conditioning in cask or bottle. I'm nervous about dropping so much yeast out that it won't carbonate enough?

[FUBAR]

I haven't used finings often (apart from copper finings), but I've got some from murphys to try: Finings Adjunct (auxiliary finings), and Allkleer A (which is isinglass). Looking at the tech sheets it seems that the former is used to remove proteins and the latter suspended yeast and can be used almost at the same time (not quite).

My questions are:

• is it likely that these will react negatively with dry hopping for any reason? (dry hopping in the FV, with finings added towards the end)
• How long are they likely to take to work? (I've cooled my FV to about 5c but its struggling to get much lower).

Cheers
Kev

+1 Kev I have got some Brupaks aux and isinglass finings to do exactly as you are on my next brew.

[Kev888]

Good stuff; let us know how you get on!

How does it effect secondary fermentation when conditioning in cask or bottle. I'm nervous about dropping so much yeast out that it won't carbonate enough?

I'm probably going to be force carbonating, but I'm also interested to know how it'll affect conditioning.

Cheers,
Kev

[Fuse]

Aux finnings dont affect the carbonation (that ive seen) i just stop my fermentation 2 points above by cooling it and don't add isinglass till cask stage (if at all) after a few days i have plenty carbonation, if you are forceing it anyway it doesnt matter at all.

Ive not had any problems with dry hopping, i just lob in my hops for a few days and leave it.

Any beer thats not been filtered will carbonate imho, even if it looks pretty clear as long as the yeast has something to eat!

[Kev888]

Thanks again! I wasn't sure how it compared to filtering, so thats good news.

Cheers
Kev

[guypettigrew]

Hi Kev888

Why are you thinking of fining?

I always fine my beers. Firstly because I can't seem to get organised enough to brew loads of beer, so I need it ready to drink really fast and, secondly, because it seems to give a cleaner taste to the beer. And it looks better!

My ales aren't cooled. Fermented at about 19-20C, racked into the keg with auxilliary finings and moved to a cooler location. Then, after 24 hours, priming sugar, dry hops and isinglass are added. Clear within 24-48 hours usually.

Guy

[Spud395]

Been reading a bit about yeast affecting hop flavour and aroma ie. the less yeast the better the flavour/aroma.
Starting to think about finings as well

[Kev888]

Guy, there were two main reasons I was wanting to try it:

One was to see what happens to long-term storage; the yeast does some good stuff to begin with but theres a point of view that says its not so ideal longer term, and my drinking-speed/turnover has dropped.

Another was about other people's perception of my beer - I'm fine with it, but the cloudiness is about the one aspect that still speaks 'homebrew' to other people. I've largely addressed it with yeast type and crash cooling, but finings could be more complete and more convenient - especially in IPAs where I'm otherwise happy with the cheap/easy but poor flocculating us-05 rather than stepping up starters and so on.

Spud, you just gave me a third reason to try - my beer hasn't been going off, its mainly the loss of hop flavour and aroma after several months that signals to me its getting past it. I'd been considering getting a randalizer to see if that helped, but its awkward where I have a few styles on the go at once so if fining can help i'll be happy.

I'm also happy that Fuse feels its not as extreme as filtering though; I just want to reduce the proteins and yeast quite a bit, not strip it almost entirely. Similarly i don't want to get into pasturising, either.

Cheers,
kev

[Scooby]

I believe that isinglass reduces the shelf life to something like 6 weeks due to autolysis.

The most polished beers I've brewed have been fined with aux and isinglass. On a recent brew I added isinglass to beer in a cornie,
It's bright in 24hrs but I left it longer to pack down a bit. I transferred it to another cornie, out to out, very gently with a minimum of
pressure as the yeast can be quite fluffy. I used clear line so I could stop at the first sign of sediment Then carbonated as normal.

I not sure that fining will help with hop flavour or aroma, in fact I reckon the opposite, it may strip it out. The Guys at Steel City who
really like their hops, non of their beers are less that 100ibu even the 4 something %ers are only adding minimal isinglass if any, and
there is a growing number of beers without isinglass. I've been to a number of festivals this year where a few beers were posted as
'Naturally Hazy' and I'm sure it wasn't a cop out. I feel that hazy beer is something we'll see more and more.

I find bottled beer maintains hop flavour and aroma better than keg or cask. Bottle from a cornie after a period of conditioning, about
3 weeks at 3-4c and then a week under pressure to carbonate. I've kept a few bottle in excess of a year, the flavour and aroma
was still there and they tasted great. Mind you that was a couple of years ago and I wasn't using anywhere as much hops as I do now, how
times and tastes change!

[orlando]

that was a couple of years ago and I wasn't using anywhere as much hops as I do now, how
times and tastes change!

So how do you use the hops and how much. I am finding aroma disappointing in brews that are not dry hopped and even then we are talking a lot of hops. My preferred method is in the fermenter but racking is a problem if the're loose and in a hop bag I wonder if they are exposed enough to the beer?

[Spud395]

This article from Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River suggests there's quiet a connection between yeast and hop flavour/aroma. I'm not qualified to argue one way or another but this lad knows hoppy beers

[Kev888]

Ah, many thanks chaps. I've resisted cosmetic changes for some time due to such complexities (and the fact that I personally don't have a problem with it), so perhaps treading carefully is the way to go.

I'm not after a completely polished beer, just one thats a bit less 'home made' looking by comparrison with the usual commercial offerings, and i don't seem to get there with simple cold settling/conditioning. Probably i'll just try gentle aux finings and where feasible more flocculant yeast to begin with. Spud, I agree from my own trials that yeast has an effect on hoppyness, certainly the strain anyway - I'd not considered that the flocculancy may be part of the reason, though, interesting link.

I know that isinglass works well, but I've never really liked the idea of it for some reason so I'd be very happy to achieve a compromise without it, and if theres a possibility that it actually reduces shelf life (which isn't something I'd realised, so massive thanks for that, scooby) thats the opposite of one of my main aims.

Cheers
kev