I've been brewing all grain for over a year now. Brewing time and space have become a bit tight and probably will be for a few months.
I've never actually brewed extract (+ specialty grains) and wanted to know how it compared to all grain for hoppy IPA type beers - which are my favourites at the moment.
My guess is that for beers where hop flavour really dominates I will see less of a difference (???)
How does it compare ? If I use a typical extract recipe i.e ~ 3kg extract, 200 g crystal/ Torry etc. and bucketloads of Cascade/ Amarillo will it be very different ?
Any advice/ viewpoints from the experienced would be greatly appreciated...
All Grain to Extract
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Dave S
- Even further under the Table
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Re: All Grain to Extract
I brewed with extract for 4 or 5 years in the 70's before going on to AG. While you can brew some perfectly respectable beers with extract, IMO it never quite matches up to a good AG brew. There is always a slight after taste which isn't there in AG. Don't know how much better a hoppy beer would be. I guess the only way is for you to suck it and see.killer wrote:I've been brewing all grain for over a year now. Brewing time and space have become a bit tight and probably will be for a few months.
I've never actually brewed extract (+ specialty grains) and wanted to know how it compared to all grain for hoppy IPA type beers - which are my favourites at the moment.
My guess is that for beers where hop flavour really dominates I will see less of a difference (???)
How does it compare ? If I use a typical extract recipe i.e ~ 3kg extract, 200 g crystal/ Torry etc. and bucketloads of Cascade/ Amarillo will it be very different ?
Any advice/ viewpoints from the experienced would be greatly appreciated...
Best wishes
Dave
Dave
Re: All Grain to Extract
Cheers Dave,
I guess I'll have to give it a go so...
I guess I'll have to give it a go so...
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darkonnis
Re: All Grain to Extract
Is BIAB a no go? if you're on about using 3kg of grain and the what not why not just make less or add another kilo of grain and stick with AG. If it where me, that's what I'd be looking at doing. Quality beer, and still cost effective 
:D
:D-
Rick_UK
Re: All Grain to Extract
I made several good extract brews on my journey to AG not quite as good as the AG ones but far better than kits.
Cost becomes a factor and with current prices of extract it will prob cost twice as much per brew as AG. The simplicity and speed of the process are a definite plus and there is less to go wrong!
Rick
Cost becomes a factor and with current prices of extract it will prob cost twice as much per brew as AG. The simplicity and speed of the process are a definite plus and there is less to go wrong!
Rick
Re: All Grain to Extract
@ Darkonnis - Yeah I am BIABing at the moment... but not even at my place. It's kind of a pain in the ass. I guess I knew what the answer would be TBH. I was hoping to get away with a few extract brews to tide me over for beer as I get my proper brewery setup.
I have no intention of quitting all grain (I'm in the process of getting a fermentation fridge and have plans to upgrade to a shiny 100L brewery in the next year) - I was mostly looking for a short-term solution.
@ Rick_UK - I did notice the price difference - Rob@themaltmiller has a decent price on 1.5kg extract and I'm about to order a bunch of stuff off him so was debating getting a few kilos of extract too.
I might do one or two brews extract just to compare so...
I have no intention of quitting all grain (I'm in the process of getting a fermentation fridge and have plans to upgrade to a shiny 100L brewery in the next year) - I was mostly looking for a short-term solution.
@ Rick_UK - I did notice the price difference - Rob@themaltmiller has a decent price on 1.5kg extract and I'm about to order a bunch of stuff off him so was debating getting a few kilos of extract too.
I might do one or two brews extract just to compare so...
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Bribie
Re: All Grain to Extract
I was at a brew club meeting tonight and a guy who has just gone BIAB brought along the last of his extract beers, as they were the only ones he had to bring to the meeting.
They were very drinkable, but quite hoppy with American Hops dominating. I think the answer is to use the best quality liquid malt extract you can get with the longest shelf life, do a style that uses crystal malts such as an American Pale Ale to give some grain character and caramel notes, and use plenty of hops such as Amarillo and Cascade.
Then ferment fairly cool with good temerature control and using a neutral yeast such as US-05 or one of the liquid American Ale yeasts and the results are miles ahead of kit beers. Reason I went AG in the first place was to make UK style real ales, which I just couldn't get anywhere close with extracts, same with lagers. But with a robust American APA or IPA you can get away with it, to my tastebuds anyway.
They were very drinkable, but quite hoppy with American Hops dominating. I think the answer is to use the best quality liquid malt extract you can get with the longest shelf life, do a style that uses crystal malts such as an American Pale Ale to give some grain character and caramel notes, and use plenty of hops such as Amarillo and Cascade.
Then ferment fairly cool with good temerature control and using a neutral yeast such as US-05 or one of the liquid American Ale yeasts and the results are miles ahead of kit beers. Reason I went AG in the first place was to make UK style real ales, which I just couldn't get anywhere close with extracts, same with lagers. But with a robust American APA or IPA you can get away with it, to my tastebuds anyway.
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boingy
Re: All Grain to Extract
I would have thought that as long as you make sure your extract is fresh you could make a beer that is hard to distinguish from an AG one, although extract may limit the range of styles you can brew.
I've seen a good price on liquid extract recently. Might have been Worcs hop shop?
I've seen a good price on liquid extract recently. Might have been Worcs hop shop?
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Fuggled Mind
- Hollow Legs
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- Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Re: All Grain to Extract
I've recently moved over from extract to AG and still have a fair bit of Brewferm DME knocking about the house. I too will have to do another extract brew at some point because I'd hate the DME to go to waste. I also think you can use it to produce good beers.
Advantages for extract are it's simplicity and that providing you are using steeping grains, a pretty good flavour. However, extract beers that are pure extract (e.g. no steeping grains) always have a funny aftertaste. I remember this from when I tried my hand at Graham Wheeler's Summer Lightning. I was happy with the brew at the time but I wouldn't want to drink it now.
On the subject of beers like Summer Lighting, that leads on to the next point - colour. With malt extract, you can never really get that golden colour. The lightest I could ever get was a dark gold/light copper. However, as I mostly brew bitter, porter and mild, colour was never too much of an issue.
All in all though, I've enjoyed many of my extract brews and if money (as others have mentioned) is not a problem, anyone with a bit of brewing experience can produce a decent pint.
Just one final thing - is 'torry' torrified wheat? I always though this couldn't be added to extract brews as it needs to be mashed.
Cheers
Jason
Advantages for extract are it's simplicity and that providing you are using steeping grains, a pretty good flavour. However, extract beers that are pure extract (e.g. no steeping grains) always have a funny aftertaste. I remember this from when I tried my hand at Graham Wheeler's Summer Lightning. I was happy with the brew at the time but I wouldn't want to drink it now.
On the subject of beers like Summer Lighting, that leads on to the next point - colour. With malt extract, you can never really get that golden colour. The lightest I could ever get was a dark gold/light copper. However, as I mostly brew bitter, porter and mild, colour was never too much of an issue.
All in all though, I've enjoyed many of my extract brews and if money (as others have mentioned) is not a problem, anyone with a bit of brewing experience can produce a decent pint.
killer wrote:If I use a typical extract recipe i.e ~ 3kg extract, 200 g crystal/ Torry etc. and bucketloads of Cascade/ Amarillo will it be very different ?
Just one final thing - is 'torry' torrified wheat? I always though this couldn't be added to extract brews as it needs to be mashed.
Cheers
Jason
Once, during Prohibition, I was forced to live for days on nothing but food and water.
W. C. Fields
W. C. Fields
Re: All Grain to Extract
Cheers for the feedback guys.
Right - My plan is to do a 10L batch with extract (about 1.5kg) and crystal and torrified wheat
Just one final thing - is 'torry' torrified wheat? I always though this couldn't be added to extract brews as it needs to be mashed.
Cheers
Jason[/quote]
It is torrified wheat, and you are right - it does need to be mashed. My (now modified - thanks !) plan is to do a minimash in my stockpot with a small voile bag and throw in some Marris Otter that i have with the torrified wheat. Then boil up with plenty of hops and ferment. I bought some NZ Cascade pellets for dry-hopping and haven't had a chance to use them yet. I bought a stainless steel mesh teaball thingy for the dry hopping.
Cheers,
Cillian
Right - My plan is to do a 10L batch with extract (about 1.5kg) and crystal and torrified wheat
killer wrote:If I use a typical extract recipe i.e ~ 3kg extract, 200 g crystal/ Torry etc. and bucketloads of Cascade/ Amarillo will it be very different ?
Just one final thing - is 'torry' torrified wheat? I always though this couldn't be added to extract brews as it needs to be mashed.
Cheers
Jason[/quote]
It is torrified wheat, and you are right - it does need to be mashed. My (now modified - thanks !) plan is to do a minimash in my stockpot with a small voile bag and throw in some Marris Otter that i have with the torrified wheat. Then boil up with plenty of hops and ferment. I bought some NZ Cascade pellets for dry-hopping and haven't had a chance to use them yet. I bought a stainless steel mesh teaball thingy for the dry hopping.
Cheers,
Cillian