Is Starsan all you need?

Martin G · Post by **Martin G** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:05 am

This came up in the cleaning and sanitation section. I was hopeful that somone in the know may be able to help / respond. I guess the main practical question is if Starsan alone is sufficient for sanitising after cleaning.

For ages I had the understanding that Starsan will not kill wild yeast very well. Irritatingly I cannot find what I read that gave me this view. Searching the web leads to lots of comments saying it will, but I also found a couple of references saying that it is not very effective against them;

Principles of Food Sanitation," by Norman G. Marriott and Robert B. Gravani.

This might mean just the spores? Not sure as I don't have a copy of the book.

The other interesting thing is that when you look at the manufacturers web site it does not mention action against yeast but other products in the range do.

Any thoughts?

Pinto · Post by **Pinto** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:33 am

Personally, im well into the mid double digits, brew wise, and all i've ever used is hot water, VWP or value bleach and (touch wood) not had a single problem or infection to date. As long as your equipment looks clean and you use (whatever choice) sanitiser in your preparation then I cant see why you'd be worried. As its been said, we're not capable (or aiming for) hospital grade sterilisation - just keeping the wild things subdued enough that our choice of yeast is dominant and let darwinism sort out the rest

I read and see good things of starsan, with many users on here - so keep calm and carry on

Skittlebrau · Post by **Skittlebrau** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:32 pm

It's all I've ever used!

jimp2003 · Post by **jimp2003** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:58 pm

Like Pinto I use VWP or cheap thin bleach to clean my equipment. Just before I use anything I sanitise it using starsan solution and twenty or so brews on I have not had any problems.

Skittlebrau · Post by **Skittlebrau** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:21 pm

jimp2003 wrote:Like Pinto I use VWP or cheap thin bleach to clean my equipment. Just before I use anything I sanitise it using starsan solution and twenty or so brews on I have not had any problems.

I think this is overkill. I just get things physically clean and then use Starsan when it's time to sanitise. I've done twelve brews, some involving various infection-inviting mishaps and I've never had a problem with infection.

jimp2003 · Post by **jimp2003** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:32 pm

Skittlebrau wrote:
jimp2003 wrote:Like Pinto I use VWP or cheap thin bleach to clean my equipment. Just before I use anything I sanitise it using starsan solution and twenty or so brews on I have not had any problems.
I think this is overkill. I just get things physically clean and then use Starsan when it's time to sanitise. I've done twelve brews, some involving various infection-inviting mishaps and I've never had a problem with infection.

You might be right - it probably is overkill. But I have the time to do this and am not in this to penny pinch so........

Bribie · Post by **Bribie** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:30 am

For just about everything including cornies and FVs I use Sodium Percarbonate, which is the active ingredient in supermarket nappy soaks. You can get the pure product from catering warehouses but ALDI unscented nappy sanitiser does the trick (contains about 35% Sodium Percarbonate). It acts like a solid Hydrogen Peroxide and fizzes and foams as it nukes and oxidises just about any organic material it comes across.

Then after a good rinse, I use Starsan. I used to use Bleach but that needs to be rinsed. Pure Sodium Percarbonate is amazing, I do my grotty sandshoes with it once a fortnight and they come up snowy white.

alix101 · Post by **alix101** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:43 am

I don't think you will find many people who use starsan that will complain about it! Its an excellent product i personally have found it better than anything I used before, its main drawback for me , is its corrosive to metal but just don't leave anything to long I belive its sanitized in 40 seconds. To answer your question starsan it's all you need.
http://jimsbeerkit.co.uk/news/newslette ... r_2007.htm

Matt12398 · Post by **Matt12398** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:55 pm

I've just bought some starsan with the aim of using it to clean the beer lines in my new kegerator that I'm building as I usually use videne but I find it stains plastics so didn't want it to stain my beer lines. My taps are stainless steel and so are the shanks. Has anyone had any issues with it on stainless and should it be ok passing through my taps?

I know it's no-rinse but I still don't feel that confortable leaving it in. Do people rinse or just leave it? I know the bottle says to leave it to dry before using so I don't know if the chemicals evaporate off when it dries or if they still leave a residue.

Manx Guy · Post by **Manx Guy** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:21 pm

Star san is great as part of a good cleaning regime.

I use it like most for a pre use (after a good clean) sanitising step.

I use it on my cornis also.

I thought it was safe for Stainless steel? As I seem to recall Blichman recommending it for sanitising most of their s/s bits...?

Cheers!

Guy

Skittlebrau · Post by **Skittlebrau** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:39 pm

Matt12398 wrote:I've just bought some starsan with the aim of using it to clean the beer lines in my new kegerator that I'm building as I usually use videne but I find it stains plastics so didn't want it to stain my beer lines. My taps are stainless steel and so are the shanks. Has anyone had any issues with it on stainless and should it be ok passing through my taps?

I know it's no-rinse but I still don't feel that confortable leaving it in. Do people rinse or just leave it? I know the bottle says to leave it to dry before using so I don't know if the chemicals evaporate off when it dries or if they still leave a residue.

If you dilute it to the right concentration then you don't need to rinse!

Matt12398 · Post by **Matt12398** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:38 am

I know you don't need to rinse but it still seems wrong to me to leave chemicals inside something you are going to drink from. I know I must get all kinds of things out of things I buy in but I wonder what it's leaving behind.

Guy, I've read a few different people's thoughts on how safe it is for stainless. Some say it's eaten through stuff and some say they leave it in their cornies for months with no problems so I'm really not sure. Perhaps it comes down to the concentration and it's less of a problem at the lower dilution. Do you rinse it from your cornies?

subfaction · Post by **subfaction** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:06 am

I think it's only an issue with soft metals, there is a good brewing network podcast with an interview from the 5 star chemist, that you should listen too if your concerned. I don't have the link but I'm sure google would.

Pinto · Post by **Pinto** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:06 pm

Matt12398 wrote:I know it's no-rinse but I still don't feel that confortable leaving it in. Do peoplrinse or just leave it? I know the bottle says to leave it to dry before using so I don't know if the chemicals evaporate off when it dries or if they still leave a residue.

Rinse ?? But that would leave a residue coating of dihydrogen monoxide on all the surfaces that would leach into any brew that you put into your cornie.

The dangers of DHMO are well known and its highly soluble in beer and cider - some unscrupulous breweries and publicans use it to cut with their stock and maximise profits....

Matt12398 · Post by **Matt12398** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:31 pm

Your sarcasm is duly noted however water I know is safe for drinking but having not knowingly drank lots of dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid I was a bit wary. Generally I've found most things containing something with a benzene ring in are worth giving a miss.

I found what I think is the podcast subfaction was talking about. They do make it sound very safe but when you have a bottle of the concentrated stuff and it has some alarming warnings it does make you question why you'd want to put it near something you drink without rinsing it off.

http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive ... -19-06.mp3

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