Guinness Yeast

[ArmChair]

Just been flicking through my GW book and decided i want to do the Guinness Export stout. Mainly because I have the grain waiting, but I'm not sure what the yeast is. Does anyone know?

I also want a higher abv, the book suggests 3.8%, I'm after 4.2%, so I'm going to have to up my grain, would I be ok just adding more pale malt?

[Kev888]

Whitelabs do an irish ale yeast (WLP004) that I quite like - usually the other main manufacturers such as wyeast do a version too, though I've not tried other brands.

IMHO though this recipe is mainly about the flavours from the roasted grain rather than the yeast, perhaps its the way I make it but its a lot fresher/cleaner/roasted tasting than the rather bland/muddy-tasting stouts one sometimes gets on tap, and maybe its me but I don't find it very like the Guinness (export or otherwise) I've ever sampled at the typical boozer; frankly to my taste its better. So if you want to use a less authentic dried yeast then for me it still works almost as well - I've had good results with nottingham or (to my surprise) I rather like it with US-05, but thats less characterful and less true to style. TBH I use one of these unless its a special occasion, as the difference isn't much, to my taste anyway, and i love the cheapness and simplicity of the recipe for such a great taste.

3.8 to 4.2% isn't a big change so given the strength of flavours from the roasted grains I don't think it would matter making the difference up by pale malt alone - personally I'd increase the roasted grain a tad too without a good reason not to, but I'd doubt you could tell. You may want to also very marginally increase the bittering hops to maintain the IBU:OG relationship, but again its a small increase so I doubt it would have great impact.

All that said, whilst this is my staple stout I'm not especially a stout fanatic, so if you get any enthusiasts contradict me, keep this in mind.

Cheers
kev

[IPA]

Just been flicking through my GW book and decided i want to do the Guinness Export stout. Mainly because I have the grain waiting, but I'm not sure what the yeast is. Does anyone know?

I also want a higher abv, the book suggests 3.8%, I'm after 4.2%, so I'm going to have to up my grain, would I be ok just adding more pale malt?

Why not try Graham's recipes in his other book? Guinness Export Stout ABV 4.6% or if this is not enough Guinness Foreign Extra Stout ABV 7.2% !!!!!

[ArmChair]

Just been flicking through my GW book and decided i want to do the Guinness Export stout. Mainly because I have the grain waiting, but I'm not sure what the yeast is. Does anyone know?

I also want a higher abv, the book suggests 3.8%, I'm after 4.2%, so I'm going to have to up my grain, would I be ok just adding more pale malt?

Why not try Graham's recipes in his other book? Guinness Export Stout ABV 4.6% or if this is not enough Guinness Foreign Extra Stout ABV 7.2% !!!!!

Sadly, I've only got the 3rd edition book, and that's the only version I know.
Do you have a copy of the grain bill for the 4.6% version?

Cheers Kev,
I will bear this in mind, and see if my LHBS has some whitelabs. I can't remember seeing it on the shelves.

Whitelabs do an irish ale yeast (WLP004) that I quite like - usually the other main manufacturers such as wyeast do a version too, though I've not tried other brands.

IMHO though this recipe is mainly about the flavours from the roasted grain rather than the yeast, perhaps its the way I make it but its a lot fresher/cleaner/roasted tasting than the rather bland/muddy-tasting stouts one sometimes gets on tap, and maybe its me but I don't find it very like the Guinness (export or otherwise) I've ever sampled at the typical boozer; frankly to my taste its better. So if you want to use a less authentic dried yeast then for me it still works almost as well - I've had good results with nottingham or (to my surprise) I rather like it with US-05, but thats less characterful and less true to style. TBH I use one of these unless its a special occasion, as the difference isn't much, to my taste anyway, and i love the cheapness and simplicity of the recipe for such a great taste.

3.8 to 4.2% isn't a big change so given the strength of flavours from the roasted grains I don't think it would matter making the difference up by pale malt alone - personally I'd increase the roasted grain a tad too without a good reason not to, but I'd doubt you could tell. You may want to also very marginally increase the bittering hops to maintain the IBU:OG relationship, but again its a small increase so I doubt it would have great impact.

All that said, whilst this is my staple stout I'm not especially a stout fanatic, so if you get any enthusiasts contradict me, keep this in mind.

Cheers
kev

[Kev888]

Cheers Kev,
I will bear this in mind, and see if my LHBS has some whitelabs. I can't remember seeing it on the shelves.

its possible, as it would most likely be in a fridge rather than on the shelves, but it must be said that many/most local shops wouldn't stock it - unlike dried yeast it has pretty short use-by dates so shops need to be confident of a decent turnover. I usually get mine online - places like the the malt miller and hop and grape stock it.
(If this is your first time using it though, be aware that its not as easy to use as dried - usually, it really needs building up in a starter before pitching, not simply re-hydrating)

cheers
Kev

[Dave S]

I've brewed this a few times, rounding up the quotas to 3.5 kg MO, 1 kg Flaked barley, 0.5 kg RB and 45 g Target. I've used both Gervin (Notttingham) and WLP 004, both to good effect. This gives an OG of around 1045, (ABV 4.4%) and the taste is great.

As Kev says, the taste of the RB is so strong that I doubt rounding up the other grains makes much difference. I did find though that upping the hop bill from 35 to 45 g was an improvement. Next time I'm going to use Bullion, which was apparently Guinness's original hop.

BTW, the Wyeast equivalent to WLP 004 is 1084.

EDIT: The above grain bill is in accordance with Dave Line's recipe from Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy, apart from the hops, which are from GW.

[IPA]

Just been flicking through my GW book and decided i want to do the Guinness Export stout. Mainly because I have the grain waiting, but I'm not sure what the yeast is. Does anyone know?

I also want a higher abv, the book suggests 3.8%, I'm after 4.2%, so I'm going to have to up my grain, would I be ok just adding more pale malt?

Why not try Graham's recipes in his other book? Guinness Export Stout ABV 4.6% or if this is not enough Guinness Foreign Extra Stout ABV 7.2% !!!!!

Sadly, I've only got the 3rd edition book, and that's the only version I know.
Do you have a copy of the grain bill for the 4.6% version?
kev

[/quote]

Hi Kev Grahams other book is called Brew Classic European Beers At Home. It's out of print but there are some for sale on Amazon. It is a brilliant book and I have never been disappointed with any of the recipes but the price of it might make you gulp. Anyway here is the grain bill for the 4.6% version.
25 litres
3900 gm Pale malt
1500 gm Flaked barley
500 gm Roast barley

30 gm Target Hops
45 gm Golding hops

Cheers Ian

[Down2Die]

supposedly Guinness use a lager malt just so you know

[Eric]

Guinness has existed in so many variations over its history, you almost need to give a date for that you are aiming to replicate.
However, Dave Line's recipe was a real cracker, so mostly pale with 10% roast barley together with more of that which gives it substance to any strength you want. It should be well boiled with a great dollop of hops to learn how it used to taste, but while DL advised using a starter from a bottle of Guinness and that can't be done these days, as has already been said it isn't so important and won't really matter even if it doesn't clear. I used third generation top cropped US05 on my last one.

[Bribie]

Guinness Yeast: according to Bill Yenne's Book "Guinness, the 250 year quest for the perfect pint" Guinness in Dublin allow the fermentation to rise to 24 degrees for around 40 hours, then chill and rest for a short while then package. He spent several weeks actually at the St James Gate brewery while he was researching the book. This seems like heresy to us ale brewers who keep to 20 degrees or lower. However the yeast is obviously selected to be comfortable at these temperatures and I regularly use Wyeast Irish Ale 1084 at temperatures above 20 degrees with good results.

Apparently it's a close relative of the Guinness yeast and goes well in foreign extra stouts as well as more modest "domestic" Guinness recipes. Would recommend it, if available. I believe the Whitelabs Irish is very similar.

Edit: also according to the book the base malt is a brown malt, the black stuff is added at the end in the form of a "syrup" made from the roast barley etc. This syrup is exported to the various countries where Guinness is brewed under licence and added to the local brew. In Australia for example a lager yeast is used and local ale malt (which is very similar to a lager malt as opposed to - say - Maris Otter). Our local Guinness in bottles is 6% ABV and is a cracker.

[Dave S]

Guinness has existed in so many variations over its history, you almost need to give a date for that you are aiming to replicate.
However, Dave Line's recipe was a real cracker, so mostly pale with 10% roast barley together with more of that which gives it substance to any strength you want. It should be well boiled with a great dollop of hops to learn how it used to taste, but while DL advised using a starter from a bottle of Guinness and that can't be done these days, as has already been said it isn't so important and won't really matter even if it doesn't clear. I used third generation top cropped US05 on my last one.

The recipe I quoted above is from BBLTYB. I've got a vague recollection the one in The Big Book of Brewing is slightly different, though I could be wrong. I do have TBBoB but a friend's got it at the moment, so I can't refer. The one above specifies White Shield yeast which rather surprised me. It does suggest though, as you and I have found that it can be brewed with a variety of different yeasts to good effect.

[ArmChair]

It seems ive opened a can of worms lol

[Dave S]

It seems ive opened a can of worms lol

Or a can of yeast

[Kev888]

It does suggest though, as you and I have found that it can be brewed with a variety of different yeasts to good effect.

I know a few beer fans who like the Guinness extra I make (roughly from BYOBRA), so I did a blind tasting with them on the same batch split between WLP004 and US-05 (which wouldn't be my first choice of a close substitute). Ultimately, some preferred one and some the other (about equally split), but some took several goes to work out the difference and not one thought there was enough difference to bother about either way.

That said, I just fermented at around 19-20c - I didn't do anything special like raise the fermentation to higher temperatures (as mentioned above) with either yeast strain; maybe theres a more marked difference if you know how to exploit it.

Cheers
Kev.

[Rookie]

The last stout I brewed was with Wyeast 1084 and it turned out great. My wife makes a stout and cherries beef dish that tastes better with my stout than with the store bought stout she used to use.
I've also had good results in a RIS using S-04.